Validhunting, Supercops, and You

[Jackary]

Hey guys. I've always wanted to put my mind out about this and also hear other peoples thoughts about this without sounding like a huge douchebag.

What are your thoughts on Validhunters/general shitsec and Supercops?

When you guys do come face to face with this type, what do you do (as crew and antag)

Do you think theres ever a chance of this mindset moving away from crew to being more of a sec threat thing?

[babayetu83]

it really depends on how theyre acting, if it's like some guy fucking up my department then i'm gonna get up and do something, otherwise i'll not interfere or support as necessary

[Lord_earthfire]

Thing is, in the question multiple things are thrown together. Supercops don't necessaruky are shitsec don't necessarily are validhunters. Although they often mix.

Shitsec are great to annoy. People on the very verge to self antagging will keep them pccupied. And once people figure put they got a shitty sec department, you will see multiple people flocking to pranking sec. So as a crewmember, i will mail them 50 slabs of synthmeat. Or if they bsn weed, i grow omega weed. As an antag, proceed as usual but remain rather stealthy.

Supercops are not really fun interacting with. You cannot RP with them most if the time they play just to "win". Very often they fall into validhunting territory. As a crewmember, i simply ignore them and as an antag, i just avoid them or try to move it into a rampage situation, because if they want to win anyway they should bloody earn it. Escalation isn't with this type of players possible anyway, so i get it outside of them.

Validhunters just are obnoxious. If i am on RP i would ahelp them (although i haven't done in the past, more so because i haven't thought about it in the situation) I simply try to stop them, antag or crewmember alike. If they try to validhunt in my vicinity, i call sec on them. Or intervene when they attsck someone, except they are sec. If i am an antag, i target them and kill them very fast. They don't play to have fun with other players and thus i think they shouldn't have fun playing this way.

While you can have good RP with a shitty sec department, you cannot with validhunters and i never enjoyed playing with or against supercops, although i suppose that can be possible. So I interact with shitsec and actively work against the game goal of validhunters. I give supercops a sliver of doubt, but i tend to avoid them.

[Kotlol]

Since this is general discussion and not RP. I will tell you what I can.

1st up: "Goon does not support the term shitsec"
It's something that is heavily frowned upon to use, so don't use that term anymore.
Insted I will call em "SecJerks"

SuperCops are those who baton 1st and will chase you without warning. If they think you are guilty, they will make sure you do not get a chance to kill em.
I do not mind these as much if they have a reason to hunt me like evidence. But they can be really degrading in RP.
In Classic on the other hand? SuperCops are needed due to the chaos and multiplue rampaging antags. They don't have time to deal with your chaos, cause a "Blob" is invading as well as a "Wizard" rampaging. Things that need to be solved ASAP or else the station goes boom. So your lil bomb planning is thwarted immidently.

As for SecJerks. I play a SecJerk from time to time. Aka a security member who will arrest you and push you and show how much ego they have in RP, but only if it comes to it. It causes fun friction and interactions with players.
As Lord_earthfire says... If they ban weed , you just grow omega weed. Wich causes Sec to set up a Drug Den Raid wich is all kinds of hilarious!
This is why I as captain sometimes ban drugs so departments will start pranking or causing smaller issues for security so security has something to do on RP then just looking for 1-3 antags.

Validhunters (aka non sec ones) are litterly illegal on RP. On Classic they are "tolerated" I heard (Admins correct me if im wrong), due to the fact if they don't act quickly, security MIGHT not make it in time and massive damage is done.
On RP it's 100% illegal to validhunt a player. If a staffy sees you with contraband, it doesn't allow them to detain you or beat you to a pulp.
If they do this, Ahelp it.
You may however defend yourself from an antagonist or assist someone being murdered by an antagonist.
BUT YOU CANNOT START MURDERING SOMEONE FOR HAVING ANTAGONISTIC TRAITS.
Under that same reason... Security MAY NOT arrest Antags for being Antags.
If someone reveals themselves to be a vampire on RP. Security CANNOT throw them into the brig for being one. The vampire HAS to commit a crime or about to commit a crime to do that.

There is a reason Security is much more lax and slower on RP. Cause they have to talk and such and behave like good police officers (or bad ones) and not run in and baton someone who's set to arrest.
Even if Security knows you done a crime, if they come in to your place when you aren't commiting a crime and baton you. Ahelp it.

That said, if an antagonist walks up to you with a gun and kills you, Ahelp it too on RP. As there was no escalation.
Antags on RP have the same rule of escalation as security. If they ignore this rule, so will Security.

I even executed players who just kept antagging the moment they step out of the brig.

So yea.. SuperCops on Classic are very much okay, Validhunters on classic aren't as much but on RP is forbidden, SecJerks are okay on RP as long as it's a charater, on classic it's "tolerated" but in both aspects it just means you have more reasons to prank and annoy em.

[Silent Majority]

If I am reading correctly its not your job to rise up against security snd not tolerate them. That's antags job.

[Lord_earthfire]

If I am reading correctly its not your job to rise up against security snd not tolerate them. That's antags job.

Yes and no. Sec isn't excepted from the escalation spiral that begins when a department begins to pester/harass another one. The kind that is normally solved by sec or command-intervention (but in that sec can't because they are part of it).

Validhunter/powercops and shitty sec in general are just one way to start the spiral. Just like harsh negliance or a prank gone very wrong on the other side.

[Kotlol]

If I am reading correctly its not your job to rise up against security snd not tolerate them. That's antags job.

Yes and no. Sec isn't excepted from the escalation spiral that begins when a department begins to pester/harass another one. The kind that is mormally solved by sec or command-intervention (but in that src can't because they are part of it).

Validhunter/powercops and shitty sec in general are just one way to start the spiral. Just like harsh negliance or a prank gone very wrong on the other side.

Agreed, if Sec gets too aggresive on pranksters or people who are clearly not antags. Pranksters will prank more since Security is allowing the escalation.

But NOT... harm em in such ways or disrupt them they can't do their job.
More like... throw a paintbomb at em and such.

Only if the pranksters are disrupting jobs too much or causing harm... is when sec has to arrest em.

[Zamujasa]

i think security and antags are terrible and that's why i set it to extended when i'm online

[Kotlol]

i think security and antags are terrible and that's why i set it to extended when i'm online

Haha.. but security still exists without antags.. maybe admins need to blow up the security wing one shift then and say: "Security is now pizza delivery people"

[Silent Majority]

I will not deliver pizza unless a commanding officer tells me to

[weezerfan2001]

What is validhunting? I don't know too many ooc terms :(

[babayetu83]

What is validhunting? I don't know too many ooc terms

validhunting is an old term for solely seeking out and murdering traitors/changelings/anything else that counts as an antagonist immediately on sight solely on the basis that theyre an antag and also regardless if they are hostile or not

[mralexs]

What is validhunting? I don't know too many ooc terms

validhunting is an old term for solely seeking out and murdering traitors/changelings/anything else that counts as an antagonist immediately on sight solely on the basis that theyre an antag and also regardless if they are hostile or not

Its also used to describe any hostile action towards an antag. It really needs to go away

[Kotlol]

What is validhunting? I don't know too many ooc terms

Like most games where you can kill fellow players like Among Us or G-mod's Trouble in Terrorist Town....
Some players try to use their game knowledge to find the killers and take em out the round asap on several contextual clues.

Like in Among Us, player hanging too close to another, then hitting the emergency button and getting them ejected before a body is discovered.
These players will basicly NOT do their task and try to "reveal the killer" 100% despite not having the role to find the killer.

It's especially annoying on Space Station 13 as rounds can last up to a hour on classic and 1:30 on RP.
So if a Validhunter removes an antagonist from play before they do ANYTHING antagonistic. (And remove means kill)
That player litterly got nothing to do due to a Valid Hunter.

Ever had a round where NOTHING happens, but yet 4 antagonists were around, but not doing anything?
Most likely a Validhunter killed em...or forced them to hide.

Security does Validhunt too, but security is kinda "made" to respond to antagonists.
But ti's not fun when the Bartender comes to your lair and starts shooting you with their shotgun and beating you to death, before you could even do a thing.
THATS THE ANNOYANCE OF VALID HUNTING.
Atleast Security arrests you... Validhunters will KILL you.

[weezerfan2001]

What is validhunting? I don't know too many ooc terms

Like most games where you can kill fellow players like Among Us or G-mod's Trouble in Terrorist Town....
Some players try to use their game knowledge to find the killers and take em out the round asap on several contextual clues.

Like in Among Us, player hanging too close to another, then hitting the emergency button and getting them ejected before a body is discovered.
These players will basicly NOT do their task and try to "reveal the killer" 100% despite not having the role to find the killer.

It's especially annoying on Space Station 13 as rounds can last up to a hour on classic and 1:30 on RP.
So if a Validhunter removes an antagonist from play before they do ANYTHING antagonistic. (And remove means kill)
That player litterly got nothing to do due to a Valid Hunter.

Ever had a round where NOTHING happens, but yet 4 antagonists were around, but not doing anything?
Most likely a Validhunter killed em...or forced them to hide.

Security does Validhunt too, but security is kinda "made" to respond to antagonists.
But ti's not fun when the Bartender comes to your lair and starts shooting you with their shotgun and beating you to death, before you could even do a thing.
THATS THE ANNOYANCE OF VALID HUNTING.
Atleast Security arrests you... Validhunters will KILL you.

damn that sucks, idek how people find fun in that sorta gameplay. SMH