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Vampire specializations
So Vampire is in a weak place right now. It hasn't been updated in a while and can be shut down WAY more easily than other antags, especially early game. I propose that Vampires should be given specializations like the wraith. This would not only refresh a rather stale antag, but would make rounds way more interesting and fun for both sides.
The discord suggested that the 3 paths could be related to making a bunch of thralls, being sneakier, and being stronger. They could also have different ways of obtaining blood rather than just biting. For instance, JoJo vampires and drain someone by shoving their fingers into them. Any thoughts?
This is a absolutely Great idea. I would love to see Vampires get a Buff in this way. This would make Vampires feel more special when rolling it and Could make the Vampire gameplay vary Greatly. I can Just image rolling vampire and Getting excited at the idea of what Path to pick. I like the ideas of the Different types of vampire and Would love to see a great variation of each vampire type as suggested in the main discussion.

My thoughts in depth would be that the Vampire and the types I would like too see. Obviously these are just My first thoughts that came to my head upon reading this. Within I would like to Put my thoughts on the different types of vampire I would like to see

1. A Vampire type that Specialised Obviously on thralls, Lets call it the Umm "Puppetmaster" Vampire. Obviously this type will have very limited strength and abilities (obviously they would need some in order to kill to get said thralls) But the focus would be on making a army. So far my thoughts on this have been that either there would be a variety of thrall types for this Vampire to create that with a balance of each could create a Stability among the Army such as Healing, Brute strength an Range etc (idk these might sound too generic) Or the other more unorthodox types I was thinking such as a Tier System where You can has different thrall types such as Pure zombies (that literally can only use arms and will likely die really quick plus have like 50% less health, all the way up to say a Champion thrall that Has more HP and has certain abilitys that make it pretty much a (very weak) vampire. Obviously this section is highly up to debate as player controlled Thralls are always likely to see conflict as they can be seen as OP. Abilities for this vampire excluding thralling would likely be Same as regular such as Drinking normally via Like neck teeth etc. and the main ability would be A disease touch of sorts, something that doesnt instantly kill as to make this vampire type reliant on its thralls rather than itself.

2. A Ability Based Vampire, One that focus's on Increasing Efficiency of Blood use on its abilitys and Power (not cooldown because that tends to lead to spam) But its abilities will focus on Blood magic such as a Improved form of the Blood steal that the vampire has now (making it actually Viable and not just a meme). As well as this it would Focus on a ranged style of attack, Unlike the thrall vampire I dont really have many ideas for this as I dont really want it to cross paths with the mechanics too heavily of the Wizard. But I do like the idea of a ability based Vampire. So if anyone has any Ability ideas please write them down below.

3. A stealth based vampire. One that Will lose health (up to a minimum of 20% of its original HP) but has some of the best Stealth in the game. Ability ideas for this Vampire would be A Increasing Blood sucking speed the faster you more you drain someone. So it would start off At base blood sucking speed but increase over time (resets upon drinking from a new target, Not when they throw you off etc). They would also Have the ability to move through the floor for a limited amount of time. and as well as this they would have the ability to slowly Release the N2O, Might be N2 (the invisible sleepy gas) This could allow for a area to become Funny sleep zone for a while, But the gas wouldnt be permanent and would dissipate after a certain amount of time. And lastly a ability to have a Extended Improved Bat form. Maybe having it be Translucent (aka not 100% invisible but kinda like the void hounds that the wraith produces ability)

Lastly I would like each of these Specialisations to have a final Form that is actually good and is specific to their specialisation thats worth getting, Idk what that is but it would be nice to have a big goal like that. I would like to see other ideas of extensions of these ideas as they are pretty bareboned and have large balancing issues.

Thank you!!!
More diversified vampires would be fun! maybe we could split the ability based vampire into 2 types 1 focusing on a lot of stuns and brute damage while the other being something like a mage vampire.So for example the brute Vamp would be able go into BIG VAMP mode (like a vampire werewolf) and have other brute based abilities like punching someone really hard that it throws them across the room,stomping on someone and some other cool things while the magic vampire would have lots of ranged attacks just like a wizard would but more blood themed.
They are pretty good in rampaging... but they lack the hp and robustness of other antags.
But I agree, early on they suck.
This is an excellent idea. My takes on vampire specializations are these three, all based on classic vampire tropes.

A larger (slightly shorter than WW) vampire that can transform from this form to a grotesque human form (Think a half rotten corpse) at will. The only abilities kept are the Chiropteran Screeches and Frost Bats, along with the normal Blood Suck. With this, they gain three new abilities, Toggle Shadow, Slit, and Transform
Toggle Shadow:
Nosferatu vampires will be able to leave nothing but a shadow on the floor in the dark. This form can be stunned by lights.
Nosferatu vampires, when directly behind someone, can start a short (1.5 second) action bar to slit their throat, taking all the blood from them.
Transforms from Nosferatu to what I'll call "Ghoul" forme. In this Nosferatu forme, you can use Slit. All attacks done take blood, and your Intents work similarly to WW, Minus the knockback.

Stealth focused vampire that retains most of the vampire abilities minus Glare, Hypnotize, Frost bats, Enthrall, and Diseased Touch.
These vampires look exactly like normal crew, with no differentiations.
You would get 4 new Abilities from going into Dracula specialization. Snatch, Charm, Captivate, and Empower Thrall.
Works like a close range Pickpocket Gun, if next to someone, you can snatch their ID (chest), Pockets (legs), and whatever hands is (i forgor) WITH the addition of also snatching Glasses if targetting the head.
Instantly stuns and knocks out the victim, like a mix of Glare and Hypnotize
Resummons ONE dead body to you as a psuedo vampire, being able to Blood Steal, Blood Suck, and Glare.
Empower Thrall:
Puts some of your blood into your psuedo-vampires system, Empowering them temporarily with the ability to turn into a Bat and use Chiropteran screech, and also giving them zombie arms.

Abilityless vampire with Wrestler abilities that looks similarly to a thrall. Can be killed by being shoved into a coffin or gibbed, but nothing else. 25 less HP than other vampires. Basically hardmode.
I really like having antags that can choose their play styles, and maybe the thrall vampire type could make lairs that thralls get buffs in
(01-11-2023, 05:29 PM)Jackary Wrote: Puts some of your blood into your psuedo-vampires system, Empowering them temporarily with the ability to turn into a Bat and use Chiropteran screech, and also giving them zombie arms.

Zombie arms are a nerf.
What if one of the vamp types could turn into a Man Bat?
(01-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Kotlol Wrote: They are pretty good in rampaging... but they lack the hp and robustness of other antags.
But I agree, early on they suck.

I'll admit, I'm a sucker for wordplay.
Bumping this as vampire still is bad and needs to be buffed
Thralls were nerfed hard. I get avoiding the zombie armies of yesteryear, but now making a single thrall feels like (is) a waste of blood.
I think this is a great idea and I'm basing my thoughts on subject on games like "Vampire the Masquerade" for examples. I really appreciated the idea above of a vampire dedicated to building an army of specialized thralls but maybe we could also have the specialized thrall selection based on vampire type, otherwise here are ideas.

The Hideous: A vampire that though it has stealth related abilities such as the ability to go invisible when passive it is ultimately disgusting in form and can hardly conceal their identity without relying on their powers with the blood points they gain. They almost look like a science experiment gone wrong and their thralls get a random and powerful gene. Also once it has anyone's blood it can ingest it and track them.

The Charmer: This vampire path though revoking thralling abilities allows them to get things done with very brief mind slaving in the same way hypnosis is pulled off. It can also gain access to people's minds in other ways, moving them with it or seeking valuable information.

The Parasite: This vampire path is ultimately a disgusting one, the vampires own blood is toxic when wounded and if anyone is exposed to it with unprotected gear it could kill them. Also this vampires "thralls" are more like miniature undead player parasites that try to enter through punctures the way an implant would. The result of this implant is still open to suggestions.

Sorry if these were some foolish ideas, but I think if we consider vampire paths there is a good link to a vampire game fan page that did that in a more single player context.

(03-02-2023, 03:47 PM)Victoriae Wrote: Thralls were nerfed hard. I get avoiding the zombie armies of yesteryear, but now making a single thrall feels like (is) a waste of blood.

If Flock Minds are able to have armies I don't see the point in reducing Vampire armies which are a lot less strong in comparison, I agree with this.
I really like the idea of having Vampires the Masquerade-like clans. They are quite diverse and have tons of ideas ready for the taking. I don't think the devs like such strong references to other IPs though.
I guess in deciding other vampiric paths, the concern is if it functions more like a disease rather then a curse; of which it is both. So you could have a vampire that uses diseases kind of expanding upon the Grave Fever types of abilities, thus the vampire virus has more potential mutations or stages rather than a path.

In the realm of proper vampire specialization, speculating how they've successfully gone or will go through evolution in space is also an intriguing pool of ideas since vampirism could almost be considered the result of virus/microbes trying to use a host to obtain blood. How'd the adapt to different threats in space.
Actually, been thinking, it could be cool to have vampires operate with paths sort of but similar to how the blob evolves to fire and stuff. Like we can pick the paths but earn the ability to pick certain resistances and whatnot that comes with it.

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