Some Ling Balance Thoughts

[TheMaskedMan2]

Hello it's my, the Changeling obsessed ling apologist. Here with a bunch of random thoughts about Changelings and how I feel they are kind of weak right now. So here's a bunch of my thoughts.

1. Headspiders should be free. Why do headspiders cost DNA points when they are the perfect second chance for lings that are caught early? The amount of Lings I see get caught so early on is kinda sad. Or one bad situation and they don't even have their one little escape. If the worry is that they would spam it- maybe give it a long cooldown between bodies. Or they have to eat at least one person inbetween.

2 Limb Critters aren't worth the cost - Limb critters are not worth half the dna points of a kill (Which is a lot harder now that you don't get any from npcs.) I feel like limb critters should be a little stronger, not insanely so, but I shouldn't be able to just punch a leg to death as a staffie with only minor damage.

3. Shambling Abomination - A few little things that annoy me about this. First of all, why can anyone just pull anybody away from you when you're eating them? It's already hard enough when you're swarmed with like six people and one single person sprinting past you can completely deny a kill, even if you punched them all into crit, they can move one tile and interrupt the entire thing. You can punch into crit, pin, then start eating, and one person pulling them can instantly deny it.
Second of all, why does leaving Shambler early drain most of your points? You can't even strategically decide to leave it early to conserve points. It's all gone!

Yes this is a slight grump post and I don't expect ALL of these to be put in at once obviously, but maybe at least a few could be considered?

[Kotlol]

1: Headspiders are a reward for not abusing your DNA points. I don't know the exact cost for one.. but in my opinion it should be 5.
But since most lings get burned almost ASAP anyway when caught on classic... having it be free on classic should be A-okay.

2: Buttcrabs are silly gimmicks but not worthless, Handspiders aren't ment to defend you, but to gather DNA passively before rejoining with you.
Eye critters are free and the most effective critters as they can make enemies slip and explode onto your enemies doing damage.
Leg critters are basicly mini wrestlers that can break doors and kick enemies away... but they are my least favorite critter since they can't go through doors like critters.. making them die the fastest and targeted the earliest.
I don't say buff em.... more give em something else.
Like have em able to assume critter forms as well when given extra DNA or... when eating other critters.
Giving janitor's pest control more reason to be used?

3. If you activate this one without an abomination arm.. you will be woefully destroyed. The point of the shambler is making killing easier and taking on groups, but.. NOT LARGE GROUPS. Even in the movie it's based off.. this form isn't used to devour 6+ people.. but more like 3.
The shambler is ment to be used to in a panic as you lose the abillity to run as one. I recommend only activating this if you have an abomination arm active as well as it will GREATLY increase your battle capabilities.....
Grab people with one arm and eat them, smack people away with the other arm (wich is abom). Keeping them away and doing massive damage. Using yell to disarm gunners and the like.
If you Shambler with only 3... keeping two enemies downed while eating one and picking up the next isn't as hard.
But when you go past 3 it becomes significantly harder..

Remember one thing of the changeling... they are suppose to be stealthy, ever changing, causing a panic, taking new forms to avoid detection and more.
They aren't ment to go to direct combat unless ABSOLUTELY nesssarcy.
I am fine with a headspider change or decrease in DNA, since I barely see these as it is.
I am fine with a change to limb critters rather then a buff. If they gonna be critters... make em use forms of critters to do their job then "Crawling hand reveals changeling and if killed gives idenity of changeling away" If it does give the idenity away... then just make em turn into rats and such then scanning them will reveal it.
I am not okay with changing the shambler... That thing can be crazy powerfull with the right tools, but if you think it should be fighting 6+ players you are SOURLY mistaken. Maybe if you could "upgrade it" with DNA points.. wich you can with abom or claw arm... I say DO NOT USE THIS UNLESS YOU ARE WITH A SMALL GROUP!

[RGBDeadSilent]

The tentacle arm is infact the Shambler arm, you uh... don't need to shamble with the tentacle arm to get robust punch wiggly boi.

1. I honestly somewhat agree that the headspider needs to be changed in some way, since it relies on DNA. This reply ties to point 3, since the Shambler costs DNA to enter, as well as leave. Unless you precisely turn off shambler at 25 DNA so you have 10 DNA left over, you won't get a head spider, and your round ends with the shamble. Hell it ties to point 2. Would you rather have a second life, or bring out a second player ad hoc, who doesn't know they are suddenly about to be a hand spider to have save you in a fight? Or a leg spider?

Cooldown mechanics maybe? Starts on cooldown already when the shift starts, maybe like a 15m cooldown? DNA total mechanic like Blob, every 50 DNA you get another head spider to use, which means a ling can have two lives if they die after reaching 10 absorbs as their shift objective? I dunno, but baseline spider I don't agree with anymore.

2. The limb critters are largely a pity mechanic. I have a heavy amount of ling rounds and I can tell you on one hand the number of times my limb critters have been helpful. The answer is once, and only because I had two really robust people I had just eaten, and they called out for it. Sadly post moment of awesomeness with them helping kill two officers, they didn't really do much else that round.

3. Shambler costing DNA to enter is absolutely fine. Its a last ditch beat em up in a tight space or rip my way through a window while ignoring stun mechanics and escape ability. Leaving Shambler costing a massive amount of DNA really sucks honestly, because it doesn't tell you it does it in the tooltip, and again, it usually cuts you off from being able to headspider.

[DioChasek]

A super motivated limb critter can do a lot of damage to the station. All that needs to happen is a few kicks as a leg, or a screwdriver and crowbar as a hand to a window and bam breech o2 escapes

[RGBDeadSilent]

A super motivated limb critter can do a lot of damage to the station. All that needs to happen is a few kicks as a leg, or a screwdriver and crowbar as a hand to a window and bam breech o2 escapes

Super Motivated person that you killed and took out of the round, that is the key part there.

Also Leg Critter can instantly kick and open a door and I as a ling can't kick open the door either?

My abomination form takes like 10s to pry open a door, but dang I morphed my legs into a formless wiggly mass and I cannot kick the door myself now : (

[zcrow]

Abominations shouldn't be able to be dragged or picked up by humans. Its a huge writhing mass of flesh. Grabbing it should get you absorbed.

[Kotlol]

Abominations shouldn't be able to be dragged or picked up by humans. Its a huge writhing mass of flesh. Grabbing it should get you absorbed.

Was suggested before... I am okay with this. It's like trying to grab / pet a plague rat. They bite you.
Aboms should defitinally bite or attack anyone who grabs them!

[RGBDeadSilent]

There is alright code for trying to grab someone and it screws you over, MACHO MAN. Touching him in defensive stance stuns you and set you up for either a mild taunting or a slim jim death.

Grabbing a ling should start an action bar that literally delimbs the limb you grabbed with.

[Retrino]

being devoured from a grab is a little dramatic. having it bite you and do brute sounds more appropriate, like the abom burgers do, but shamblers are already anchored (and unpinnable to my knowledge?) there isnt much reason you would have for going and grabbing a shambler. trying to yeet it off shuttle is absolutely ineffective and honestly just gives the ling ample chance to space you instead with their auto aggro grab

[Kotlol]

being devoured from a grab is a little dramatic. having it bite you and do brute sounds more appropriate, like the abom burgers do, but shamblers are already anchored (and unpinnable to my knowledge?) there isnt much reason you would have for going and grabbing a shambler. trying to yeet it off shuttle is absolutely ineffective and honestly just gives the ling ample chance to space you instead with their auto aggro grab

*Grabs Abom, grabs tightly, Presses R, Profit*

While you can't pin the Shambler.. suplexing it does high damage and makes it "Stunned" for a lil while.
And remember the ling when in Shambler has to deal with all sorts of people attacking it... especially security.
It barely has any ranged attacks either and is slow in movement.

Discouraging any melee would be a neat idea, cause unlike other "STRONG MELEE ANTAGS"
The shambler form loses so much speed, it's ridicilous and you are on a timer and losing survival options FAST with the DNA drain.

[zcrow]

being devoured from a grab is a little dramatic. having it bite you and do brute sounds more appropriate, like the abom burgers do, but shamblers are already anchored (and unpinnable to my knowledge?) there isnt much reason you would have for going and grabbing a shambler. trying to yeet it off shuttle is absolutely ineffective and honestly just gives the ling ample chance to space you instead with their auto aggro grab

This seems like a fair compromise. AFAIK, Shamblers can still be grabbed and moved around, at least from my most recent experience. Someone was able to aggro grab and move me to the airlock. They couldn't throw me, but I reverted to human just before they tried and I was sent flying. So I'm not 100% they're anchored.

[TheMaskedMan2]

The tentacle arm is infact the Shambler arm, you uh... don't need to shamble with the tentacle arm to get robust punch wiggly boi.

1. I honestly somewhat agree that the headspider needs to be changed in some way, since it relies on DNA. This reply ties to point 3, since the Shambler costs DNA to enter, as well as leave. Unless you precisely turn off shambler at 25 DNA so you have 10 DNA left over, you won't get a head spider, and your round ends with the shamble. Hell it ties to point 2. Would you rather have a second life, or bring out a second player ad hoc, who doesn't know they are suddenly about to be a hand spider to have save you in a fight? Or a leg spider?

Cooldown mechanics maybe? Starts on cooldown already when the shift starts, maybe like a 15m cooldown? DNA total mechanic like Blob, every 50 DNA you get another head spider to use, which means a ling can have two lives if they die after reaching 10 absorbs as their shift objective? I dunno, but baseline spider I don't agree with anymore.

2. The limb critters are largely a pity mechanic. I have a heavy amount of ling rounds and I can tell you on one hand the number of times my limb critters have been helpful. The answer is once, and only because I had two really robust people I had just eaten, and they called out for it. Sadly post moment of awesomeness with them helping kill two officers, they didn't really do much else that round.

3. Shambler costing DNA to enter is absolutely fine. Its a last ditch beat em up in a tight space or rip my way through a window while ignoring stun mechanics and escape ability. Leaving Shambler costing a massive amount of DNA really sucks honestly, because it doesn't tell you it does it in the tooltip, and again, it usually cuts you off from being able to headspider.

1. I like the idea of headspider being free and mostly guaranteed, but that you can only create one every 15-20 minutes. OR you need to absorb one other person to "refresh" your DNA and be able to headspider again. Honestly, the idea of headspider being a last resort kinda similar to blobs second chances or Vampires coffin escape. Is kind of lost when you can never use it when you actually need it. (Personally I like the idea of a Final Resort ability that gibs you into a ton of critters and a headspider, but that's beyond this suggestion.)

2. I understand they're a pity mechanic, but it feels kind of lame in my opinion that I have all these players in my head begging for limbs, but I can barely justify using any of them. I think handspiders are the only ones in a decent place right now. I sometimes wonder if they should be free, but have a much longer cooldown, or if ling DNA gain-cost-mechanics should be reworked entirely. Either way, legs are the ones in the worst place though, six dna points for something that can't even get a naked assistant lower than half health before dying.

3. Yeah, in my opinion, shambler just shouldn't drain DNA when you leave it, it already makes you extremely obvious, drained a ton of DNA just by being inside of it, and leaving it stuns you. It should be possible to strategically leave it early to conserve DNA, instead of feeling like you pretty much have to fight to the death.