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HoP Rework Discussion
#1
Hey, as previously mentioned in this thread I'm planning to a rework of HoP mechanics and introduce a bunch of changes, many of which will be subject to debate. Before really getting into it though, I thought it smart to make a thread about it to not only gauge interest, but also opinions and ideas for this.

First, let's do a breakdown of my subjective problems and opinions about HoP:
- HoP is often jokingly mentioned to be never around, but this is an actual problem
- HoP rarely has a reason to be around 24/7, leading to problem number one
- HoP is the only command member (besides Captain) to not have a designated department, furthering problem number two


Let's have a discussion about command members for a bit. Every command member has a designated department they belong to, Security (HoS), Medical (MD), Engineering (CE) and Science (RD). The only exceptions are Captain and HoP, which leads to the fact that both of these often share a series of tasks, and in many games even leads HoP to act as a vice-captain in many matters. But the truth is that the Captain doesn't have anything to do other than to oversee and mess around, in many ways it makes sense that Captain's department is, in a sense, all departments.

The same can't be said about the HoP, who very much has a task, but no department that goes with it. The task itself is menial and leaves HoP with nothing to do a majority of the round, but also leads to situations that if there is work required, he's not present to do it. Therefore, these are the issues I'm wanting to tackle, and for that, we're going to take a look at each one of them.

Solution Nr. 1: Give HoP more meaningful things to do that warrant his presence in an office.
This is a no-brainer, if a job doesn't do what it's supposed to because they have no incentive to, then give them things to do. Here's what I'm thinking, the field of expertise for any HoP is paperwork. Filling out forms, handing out forms, and handling assignments to departments via IDs. Some of you may be familiar with DisturbHerb's or Adhara's paperwork templates. These are fantastic and were made to enhance the job experience of a HoP, but I feel like they should be made official, or at the very least, be viewed upon as an example for forms that HoP should start out with. Filling out and signing forms should be an integral part of being a HoP, and should provide at the very least an extra layer of work. Things such as artifact forms are also great examples for layouts that could be used for a variety of tasks. Someone else also mentioned tasks such as messaging / emailing people about specific things, but this would require more brainstorming.

On the subject of forms, they shouldn't just be limited to forms you fill out for the station. I'm proposing something akin to the requisitions system of QM, randomly generated forms (or picked from a list) that have to be filled out and filed / sent in order to generate a bit of cash. This could be silly little things like "List of favorite foods" to "Rank the danger level of the following syndicate-affiliated factions". Ideally, each of these will have a "correct" checklist to fill out, like artifact forms, that will pay out an amount based on how many correct answers were supplied. It will give HoP another thing to do during downtime that's very fitting to his role.

Photocopiers. These are excellent devices that are fully coded and even include paper bin support. HoP should start out with a single copy of each necessary form and should be required to make copies of any forms. Not only does this utilize an otherwise fairly unused object, it's also very much what a HoP would be doing. Other tools that should receive more usage are noticeboards (saves notes between rounds, great for custom stuff), filing cabinets (for storing filled out forms) and clipboards, which RD for instance spawns with, and arguably, so should HoP. Printers are worth mentioning, too. Since people love doing things for money, why not give a monetary incentive per correctly filled out form in the filing cabinet at the end of the round, akin to how many other departments do things to generate cash flow. 

Solution Nr. 2: Tie HoP directly to banking / stock marketing to create a new gameplay loop
Banking is a large part of the game that's somehow largely ignored. Basic features, such as being able to create new banking accounts for people who spawned without a record in the system, are missing entirely and are sorely needed. Once that's patched up, this is a big part of the game that's practically waiting for a department to handle it, and HoP is the job to do it. They already have a banking computer on most if not all maps, and are considered to be in charge of it, but there's little reason to even interact with it in any given round unless someone messed with it.

How about introducing a system focused around job performance? Payment shouldn't be job-based, instead it should be based on a department budget that any given job belongs to. Departments have a job performance rating that increases when doing well, and decreases when doing poorly. The budget will be monitored and evaluated by the HoP, and payments no longer work on a schedule, but on an interval that the HoP can configure. Additionally, the HoP can cut or increase funding of departments that do poorly, based on their rating. This budget could tie into a variety of things, such as inventory of vending machines or even electricity. Botany just smoked weed all shift? Vending machines become locked out and their power is cut.

The stock market is a system that's still in development, but should definitely be fleshed out. Banking is nice, but is more of a passive increase in responsibility. Stock marketing is very much the active part of dealing with money. Additionally to filling out forms, the HoP can increase the amount of cash generated for the station by properly buying and selling stocks at the right time. This is something that could be a more involved process that a HoP can entertain themselves with in their office during downtime without going missing.

Solution Nr. 3: Introduce a new department centered around HoP, "Human Resources"
With all the new stuff and potential, HoP may now have more things to do and have more responsibility, but what if HoP dies, is an antagonist and the Captain is nowhere to be found? A valid concern, and something many of us have likely already experienced. That's why I'm proposing a new job, which will act like a HoP with less access, called Administrative Assistant (a HoP Lite, if you will).

Hoplites (heh) can do many of the tasks that HoP would usually do, although with less executive dominion, for instance, they will be able to grant ID access, but nothing higher than their own rank. They won't be able to grant command access and will primarily deal with lower level ID requests. Additionally, they'll also be handling the filing of forms or preparation of copies in case HoP is busy doing other things. And like the HoP, they'll be able to spend their time trading in the stock market to increase the cash flow for the station.

The advantages of having underlings is obvious, there's an additional level of responsibility and delegation that HoP gains by having a department he governs over, and it'll finally be possible for him to be missing from his station for whatever reason without the captain having to spring into action (since he's often just as unreliable). Furthermore, AdminAsses (heh again) will be similar to other assistants in that even if they aren't great at their job, it's not the end of the world. There's a case to be made about reworking staff assistants into administrative assistants, though I personally wanted to avoid that because Staff Assistants are very much jack-of-all-trades and I didn't want to remove that part of their identity.

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Anyhow! That's the basic gist of my ideas. Feel free to call out any particular parts you like and any which you don't like. Obviously suggest any ideas you feel are relevant to the discussion, or even disagree with any of my takes. I'm not trying to push any specific idea, I just want HoP to feel like a more full job experience, and after a lot of thinking time, this is what I came up with.
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#2
You might have something with the Human Resources thing. Technically HoP is already head of staff so it would make more sense to either make them command or civilian, but anywwho. I know everyone hates paragraphs upon paragraphs of text, so have some reader friendly bullet points!:

-With 2 shut down, there is more grey shirts than ever on main. Making a few new jobs to keep people more entertained would be an interesting direction

-As you state, the budget and stocks are basic but have some great potential. Making a new job that makes the station money MAY get in the way of cargo, tho.
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#3
I'd like a revamp of the stock market system and the ability for the HoP to directly link the station payroll to it for gambling. Also HoP is the head of the civillian deparment ( unassigned staffies, chef, bartenders, botanists and janitors ).
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#4
And now my suggestions for said new jobs. Obviously I don’t expect these to go anywhere but hey it’s the ideas forum so here’s some ideas:

-The HoP at roundstart on classic gets SWAMPED, and especially recently, I’ve been called to deal with stuff at hop line as captain or secoff almost every round. A bodyguard to the HoP (maybe with a riot shotgun like the bartender used to have) would be a good role for people to ease into security, provide that protection for the HoP desk, and create an interesting dynamic during revolution rounds (bodyguards are cool!) However, the biggest issue with this is that the HoP desk only needs protection roundstart, really. After that things die down, it would be a boring job (kinda like HoP itself) which leads me onto my next idea.

-Hop has to approve money withdrawals over x amount of money. They get a special ATM that can dispense the money from the persons budget (or the station’s!). Doing so leaves a record on the ATM that can be erased by being emagged. This lets people without traitor gear still siphon funds, they just have to withdraw them slowly in order to not get caught. It also cuts down on “who tf stole the cargo budget there’s no financial records”, gives counterplay to theft, and gives the HoP a reason to stick by their desk!

(I am not a coder and am also stupid, Idk if this is feasible)
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#5
HoP's main "Role" on the station is to resolve inter-departmental conflicts, manage the Civilian departments, ensure that the departments around the station are adequately staffed, and get eaten by a changeling 10 minutes in.

It's primarily a roleplay job, but it's no less useless than RD is, to be honest. I don't think it needs a "rework", personally.
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#6
I'm kinda in with Ursula here. HoP is sorta a keyholder job that exists mostly as a backup.
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#7
I rather have more tools for the HoP to mess with then a rework.
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#8
(10-19-2022, 11:08 AM)Sacchi Wrote: I'd like a revamp of the stock market system and the ability for the HoP to directly link the station payroll to it for gambling. Also HoP is the head of the civillian deparment ( unassigned staffies, chef, bartenders, botanists and janitors ).

While true on a technicality, this doesn't really play out in practice at all. Heads of Staff are usually a representation of every department that works under them, and HoP doesn't really cook, plant or clean.

(10-19-2022, 01:48 PM)Silent Majority Wrote: I'm kinda in with Ursula here. HoP is sorta a keyholder job that exists mostly as a backup.

Not disputing that HoP has overlap with the Captain, but isn't that grounds for a rework even more so? I don't see the harm in making a role more engaging than it is currently if it's only a backup; if anything you're just creating a more engaging gameplay loop for someone.


(10-19-2022, 01:59 PM)Kotlol Wrote: I rather have more tools for the HoP to mess with then a rework.

That's one of the things I'm suggesting.
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#9
this seems less like a rework and more like it'll push hop play into very specific niches, which on principle I don't think is a very good idea for goon. it's important that people have the freedom to play the role in different ways, in my book
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#10
I think you’ve done yourself a disservice here by branding this “rework” instead of just “added content / qol”….

1] Adding a selection of premade forms the HoP can photocopy to the ie filling cabinet would be pretty neat. Paperwork bounties as incentives (thinking Papers Please) could be amusing but the implementation would need to be careful not to stifle creativity.

2] Banking could use more content. The HoP has the tools to assess and assign performance bonuses already, but I guess some supporting tools wouldn’t be too bad. Don’t like cutting power / interfering with the basic ability to do a job. Shaming/honouring departments somehow could be funny

3] Eh I’m not sure there’s enough content, and if the HoP has a gimmick in mind they can always promote randomers help out.
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#11
(10-19-2022, 03:44 PM)MetricDuck Wrote: I think you’ve done yourself a disservice here by branding this “rework” instead of just “added content / qol”….

1] Adding a selection of premade forms the HoP can photocopy to the ie filling cabinet would be pretty neat. Paperwork bounties as incentives (thinking Papers Please) could be amusing but the implementation would need to be careful not to stifle creativity.

2] Banking could use more content. The HoP has the tools to assess and assign performance bonuses already, but I guess some supporting tools wouldn’t be too bad. Don’t like cutting power / interfering with the basic ability to do a job. Shaming/honouring departments somehow could be funny

3] Eh I’m not sure there’s enough content, and if the HoP has a gimmick in mind they can always promote randomers help out.

Pretty much says it best.

I think premade folders of templates is nice to have. I like RPing "Paper work Captain/HoP" but I don't like writing templates.
So having those + possible paperwork bounties is nice. (Let alone bounties are optional)

With banking I think it's obivious what needs to be done... wich ties into paperwork.
If a department does good, the HoP can request more pay to Cent.Com. 
The HoP should be able to send a "request for more funding" through out the shift (3 times) and distrubite them (or take them)
Now you can have people sucking up to the Hop for more money.
But the HoP can also request less funding from Cent Comm always...
Though alerts do go out for raises and wage downgrades...

Finally I think the HoP needs one more thing to be more obivious. "The judge"
Normally the law is upheld by either the HoP or Captain.
But in my book.. it should be the HoP since on most maps their station is closest to the court room and have access to the judge equipment only in some maps.
So how do we improve judging?
TIE IT TO PAPERWORK!

Now paperwork can "ask for raises or wage downgrades" "Put something on someone's record / setencing" And most importantly "Free up job listings"
I once griped at this that if you join at the start of a shift and you roll Scientist but then want to play engineer all shift, changing it.. that science slot is basicly gone for late joiners. Sure the HoP can fix that too... but the HoP can also "vanish" and now we got disgruntled players.
In that sense.. the moment the HoP submits the "job change form" and has the player sign it... the system will recongise Player A scientist is now Player A Engineer.
Now engineering loses a slot (or if it was full nothing happens) but science becomes free for later joiners.
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#12
Expanding them as a department is possible. Lawyer already feels very much like a job that would be under them. Union Reps, Safety Inspectors, etc. Give the job console some presets they can pick and supplies they can pass out.

Could be interesting if some of those late join jobs were things the HoP was tasked with finding suitable candidates for. Be in charge of filling out their own department. Get requests for job orders they have to find the labor for.

Maybe some kinda Gig economy thing where Staff Assistants can be pinged for assignments from the HoP they can choose to accept on their PDA. Delivery assignments, odd jobs for other departments. HoP receives the request, approves it, then passes it off to the labor pool or hand selects staff to carry it out

More tools to communicate and organize for other people
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#13
(10-23-2022, 03:33 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Expanding them as a department is possible. Lawyer already feels very much like a job that would be under them. Union Reps, Safety Inspectors, etc. Give the job console some presets they can pick and supplies they can pass out.

Could be interesting if some of those late join jobs were things the HoP was tasked with finding suitable candidates for. Be in charge of filling out their own department. Get requests for job orders they have to find the labor for.

Maybe some kinda Gig economy thing where Staff Assistants can be pinged for assignments from the HoP they can choose to accept on their PDA. Delivery assignments, odd jobs for other departments. HoP receives the request, approves it, then passes it off to the labor pool or hand selects staff to carry it out

More tools to communicate and organize for other people

Now this is good! Gives staffies things to do via their PDA and such!
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#14
(10-23-2022, 03:33 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Expanding them as a department is possible. Lawyer already feels very much like a job that would be under them. Union Reps, Safety Inspectors, etc. Give the job console some presets they can pick and supplies they can pass out.

Could be interesting if some of those late join jobs were things the HoP was tasked with finding suitable candidates for. Be in charge of filling out their own department. Get requests for job orders they have to find the labor for.

Maybe some kinda Gig economy thing where Staff Assistants can be pinged for assignments from the HoP they can choose to accept on their PDA. Delivery assignments, odd jobs for other departments. HoP receives the request, approves it, then passes it off to the labor pool or hand selects staff to carry it out

More tools to communicate and organize for other people

Really love the suggestions made here. Tying late joins to "come get your ID" makes a lot of sense thematically, doesn't punish people that are there from the start and serves as giving HoP a reasonable extra workload.

As I was making the post I also noticed I had forgotten to mention it, but you are very right, there's a lot of jobs that fit into the department already. Lawyers would make a fantastic permanent addition, they'd enhance roleplay without detracting much and would make it so the courtroom gets used consistently. It also further establishes HoP as a pseudo Judge. Union Reps or Inspectors as well, since we were on the topic of department budgets, having Inspectors report to HoP gives an extra layer of player interaction.

The staffie thing is also a good idea, how many rounds have you played where you had a missing Doctor / Engineer / Miner and as thus your department couldn't function efficiently? Yet there's plenty of people around that have nothing to do. Streamlining a way for people to know there's a "Miner wanted" in the form of Job postings could be great. Even if it's just a simple "There's a broken APC in Robotics but we have no Engineering, could a staffie go fix it?"
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#15
i think it would be interesting if the hop could make jobs available to people for who latejoin in a vein similar to how borgs can be latejoined. other than that, i'm kinda stumped on how to "rework" the hop. unlike security, engineering, medical, and research, the hop isn't an upgraded chef/botanist/clown/etc. so there's no real expectation there for the hop to really do anything except sit around customs upon request
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