Make wraith more common

[CalliopeSoups]

Yeah that's about it. Everyone's already saying it, with the new wraith rework people are again talking about how crazy rare wraith is, especially on RP. A rare antag is well and good, but I hear people with hundreds and even a thousand hours either seeing a wraith on RP like twice, being it once or neither of the two at all. With three paths to choose from, wraith now comes with variety so not every wraith shift is gonna be the exact same.

Alternatively, give it the hightened chance throughout October to get some testing done then see if people want to keep that.

[swinglow20]

A sugestion i had on the discord is make a "spooks" game mode that combines vampire, werewolf, and wraith. Maybe not in that order or in that 1:1:1 ratio. Something worth considering, and also so that any one antag in the mix wont be the main focal point of the round.

[Danger Noodle]

I could see a spooky gamemode but I think it'd need more antag variety. Lings are very common but they *are* from a horror movie so they could get added. Hunters aren't seen often and making them more common or maybe even a rare roundstart antag could be interesting.

[swinglow20]

I would rather maybe see a slasher gamemode than ANOTHER instance of a ling game mode. This isnt the place for this discussion, but a rework of the mixed system would be nice. Maybe make a sci fi mixed for ling, arcfiend, and Flock. Itd be nice for flock because it would allow for a higher chance to roll the antag by seperating it from the base mixed gametype

[Kotlol]

I woudl love a spooks mode.

I have played most antags on RP (even flockmind , thanks Admeme) but the Wraith has never come up once for me.
I seen several but they are on the more rare case.
I did become a poltergeist a few times but.. that's not a wraith is it?

[Wisemonster]

Yea, I'd love it if wraith was more common. Out of the two years I've been on goon, I've only played round-start wraith once, even though I've had it checked for the majority of my time playing. It doesn't help that due to how it's coded, round-start wraiths can't appear on the wizard, changeling, and spy thief game modes, and only have a 10% chance of appearing on traitor. (I'm unsure what the chances of a wraith spawning are on mixed and mixed_rp)

---

Ok, so I found out how the chances for a round-start wraith to spawn on the mixed gamemodes is calculated. Apparently, the game first needs to determine that at least 4 antags are spawned. If the game rolls less antags, it's impossible for a "major threat" antag to spawn (I.E. Wraith, Blob, Flock). Then, the chance that some antags are replaced with this major threat is calculated based on how many major threats are in the gamemode, multiplied by 10 (For example, in the vampire gamemode, which is a child of mixed, the only major threat is wraith, so there's a 10% chance that 2 of the current antags are replaced by a wraith. In the mixed (action) gamemode, there's a 30% chance to roll a major threat, and then a 1/3 chance that major threat is a wraith.)

[Joefesok]

I think it'd be a good idea to have wraith and flock as their own category in mixed selection- kind of antags that contribute to the chaos and lean on other players' actions to shine but have difficulty standing up on their own.

[ThatScarlett]

I do wish wraith was as common to roll as any other antagonist, on RP at least. Right now it's incredible rare to have a wraith on the shift, and when you do, it's a specific round type and someone got lucky enough to roll it.

[DioChasek]

Ghost, vampire, werewolf and floor goblin at 5% because why not.

[mab]

i agree that wraith should be more common on rp. especially now that we have a rework, i think it can offer many rp opportunities and i cant wait to see them. i rolled it only once in two years, it was on rp and the round ended early because there was also kudzu. but there was definitely an opportunity to do rp (or maybe im biased because it was too funny to see players scared by the blood graffiti and by my threatening whispers)

a wraith gamemode could be good, or "spooky" gamemode with other antags like vampire, werewolf etc as someone else suggested. we could try something like this for Halloween maybe?

[CalliopeSoups]

Making another post on my own thread cause I have updated thoughts.

Classic wraith chances are fine actually. They get midrounds which make them significantly more likely to get one, sometimes even frequently.

RP wraith... Needs love. I see the same arguments a lot that it's new update shine, or that it would get stale every shift, or there's no counterplay etc. I feel there's confusion on what people actually want here, and it's for RP wraith to not be *stupid ridiculous* kind of rare, not to give it the same chances as your average traitor. Besides again, wraith has variety and active counterplay now. You don't have to convince the whole server to salt everwhere and hope someone gets lucky, one person can go out on the offensive now, and the three paths paired with playstyle provides different feeling wraiths.

The way wraith spawns, I think, is with a flat chance to replace some antags once you reach a certain number of them. Already, this means that lowpop RP wraith is basically not even a thing. Wisemonster on the discord did some numbers and found with the best random number pull, you still need at least 35 players round start to even spawn one. I'm paraphrasing here, though.

Right now it just feels as though, if you gathered like 50 players, you'd see only two of them get RP wraith after a year.

[ThatScarlett]

I really think Wraith could be an antagonist to shine on RP, with the rework and abilities they have now.
And I wished lowpop RP was a thing, I have about 2000 hours in the game and good part of it was playing there, haven't rolled nor seen a wraith ever in those circumstances, and it's kinda funny and sad to see people on OOC before round really wishing to roll wraith roundstart.

I really think a PR could be made on this, to maybe add wraith to the RP mixed gamemode and have better chances, or even make random events midround for a ghost to spawn as a wraith, if an antagonist died this round.

Not gonna lie, I really want to try out the "new wraiths", but they aren't either in the murderbox nor possible to roll in my main server.

And I do not think an argument like "it's too strong" applies, really. Traitors can buy a SPES-12 with their uplink, If someone decided to just buy it and rampage on RP with it, they could, but on RP at least they'd get ahelped and punished, which I don't think wraith could be as powerful as. And with the new update, the spirit candle item sounds quite nice of a counter for them.

[CalliopeSoups]

Personally I think adding a wraith midround would be overkill and make it TOO common.

There was a PR to add a chance to spiefs, but it got quickly shut down. I'm still determined it should be added to some gamemode, or just given some sort of small chance overall or something. Asking for scraps instead of crumbs here.

I feel that there NEEDS to at least be a fix to allow wraith to even show up on lowpop RP, I don't think it's fair that RP players get such a comically tiny chance compared to classic, not when wraith presents so many RP opportunities now, ESPECIALLY something like trickster on lowpop.

I'll leave my thoughts there for now and update if I feel different after experiencing october's higher wraith rolls. (I'm assuming that's a thing, I hear people say it is.)

[Kotlol]

Personally I think adding a wraith midround would be overkill and make it TOO common.

There was a PR to add a chance to spiefs, but it got quickly shut down. I'm still determined it should be added to some gamemode, or just given some sort of small chance overall or something. Asking for scraps instead of crumbs here.

I feel that there NEEDS to at least be a fix to allow wraith to even show up on lowpop RP, I don't think it's fair that RP players get such a comically tiny chance compared to classic, not when wraith presents so many RP opportunities now, ESPECIALLY something like trickster on lowpop.

I'll leave my thoughts there for now and update if I feel different after experiencing october's higher wraith rolls. (I'm assuming that's a thing, I hear people say it is.)

Agreed on midround spawns. We already have midround 'wraith' spawns when one is active in POLTERGEISTS.

I still think we need it more on RP despite what people think. If it's rare since it can destroy stations.. then whitelist it on RP like we do with HOS and NTSO
Problem solved.

[CalliopeSoups]

Agreed on midround spawns. We already have midround 'wraith' spawns when one is active in POLTERGEISTS.

I still think we need it more on RP despite what people think. If it's rare since it can destroy stations.. then whitelist it on RP like we do with HOS and NTSO
Problem solved.

Whitelist is a bit silly I think, all we need is a slight chance boost. Only tricksters get poltergeists now, and RP would actually have an easier time against plaguebringer due to actually cleaning the station. Even harbinger has a funny puppy that can talk and a funny huge skeleton that can talk.