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Let's talk Antags (Those we have and those we don't)
#1
We all known Goonstation has many many Antagonists. But some... are lacking from RP and others are loved.
So while I can say "We need these antags now" and "These antagonists need to be removed from RP"
That's not what this topic is going to be about....

Remember all antags are "technically" available on RP if admins allow them. And i like the admin supervision. 

Anyhow... on to the topic at hand. Let's discuss some antags with the way to do this being simple.

Take one antag you can be on RP and an antag that's blocked from RP (Unless admeme).
Compare them... or don't. Talk on why the allowed antag is bad and the blocked one should be allowed.
Talk on why you love both of them.

I'll go 1st.

Allowed Antag: Sleeper Agents.
To me the worst antagonist in the game. Atleast hard mode traitors get the full shift to do their things.
But nothing upsets me more then when I go into RP. Enjoying my shift and then 5 mins before the shift ends... the game is like: "LOL SLEEPER AGENT NOW"
Like what can I do in that time?
My problem with sleepers is that depending if the antagonist dies during the shift and sleepers are needed... that alot of the time... these sleepers are doing a job and suddenly "Welp you are an antag with limited time"
Alot of the time you gotta make do with what you have but when the timer is with 15 mins to go. I mostly give up on doing anything crazy....

Banned Antag: Werewolf.
Love these lil wuffers. I remember a shift where we used mutini's to isolate werewolf mutations... and then... put em in the rage cage! (Was a rage cage shift).
Shamefully these days it's not as easy to get anymore with some mutini changes.
But I would love to see these guys more often in RP...
See what it's like when they are actual antagonists in RP and what people will do with them.


(And that's the gist. Let's discuss for fun! Mention 1 antag that is on RP and one that can only be found on main (Or admeme only).)
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#2
Ok I‘ll bite.

Conspirators:

Do you like hard mode traitor? Do you like herding cats? Why not combine the two in an antag role guaranteed to make you headbutt through a glass wall in frustration when your other conspirators decide to not respond to their radio at round start, one cryos immediately, two decide to actually work together on your assigned plot, and the last player decides this is a great time to make a ttv and ruin 3 other antags rounds because haha bomb go boom.

It is the only antag role I have disabled because while I have had interesting conspirator rounds when all my team buys in to the idea, far too many have been utter trash because of the earlier examples.

Quite frankly the mode needs some love.onto the other category.

Wizard:

Yes they are unequivocally the most powerful antag in the game. High destructive capabilities, great defenses, and insane mobility. They also have some of the best gimmick potential as well.

Petting zoos, cluwne sanctuaries, vacation wizard, butt collector and bull charge bowling tournament all come to mind within seconds and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

With a slight modification to the spells available the wizard could work as an antag on RP and I dare say in the right hands it would be more interesting than a wraith.
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#3
> "Do you like hard mode traitor? Do you like herding cats?"

Say no more, im sold.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm I'll say I dont like ling as much just because the gameplay and narrative gets real stale after a while of playing; I find them kinda limited in what they can do gimmick-wise

for antag not on RP, I'd put my 2cents in for wizard too. I get most of my Quality Classic Server RP on wizard rounds at random. Some of the abils are admittedly not great for RP, but the concept of wizards with all this Lore and they have their own little ship and they Hate NT and they have their own federation...it's one of the most thoughtful antags in that regard and the setup leaves a lot of room for how someone plays it. When we've run Guided, Admin Sanctioned wizards on RP, they've been pretty fun.

also they're just totally goofy.
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#4
Allowed antag: Spy

While i know many people loath the aspect of random stuff going missing, the spy can really drive paranoia in a round. People doing shady stuff in a corner somewhere where they shouldn't be or randomly taking pictures of people can lead to quite interesting conversations where you akwardly try to weasel out of the situation (if the other person simply does not call sec on you). On the other hand, getting random stuff as a traitor you don't have perfect control creates the need to adapt to how to approach your antagging. It's quite a content-diverse playstyle i kinda like.

Banned Antag: Wizard

Honestly, i really like wizards as round driving demigods capable of tearing the station apart at their leasure. The thing i kinda dislike is their choice of spells. Most of them are either completely destructive or only useable for escape. I really would like them to have more gimmick spells and their spell cost rebalanced to make them take less damage spells. With more flexible/gimmicky spells, they would be able to do engage in shenanigans in a station and be suitable for an RP.

A fireball isn't really RP-friendly. Except when you make a fireball shooting range and compete with the crew using seething tomatoes or grenades, then grats on that gimmick.
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#5
I wish there was a RP version of wizards/werewolves where they aren't as powerful as in classic, some good roleplay bits could come out of that.

Big issue? Ideias and work towards It.

Their stats and abilities would need to be revised and balanced, and then maybe create and code new abilities, maybe objectives, et cetera.

And well, once a PR on it is done, would need quite some time to MAYBE get merged (unless the dev team would be working towards it)
.
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#6
Changelings

Due to the way escalation rules work, and changes to being able to feed off npcs, lings have an uphill battle that I had to tap out of. Their primary power is an instant invisible dose of fast acting knockout juice. They then eat someone and essentially hold them hostage. Due to the way we function, in rp, the ling is incentivezed to give only the most passing rp and in my long experience, usually just walks up to you and stings you and say's hi. I do not find them interesting or fun to be or go against, they're rp potential is too often squanderd by  press button to win button.

Gangs

I feel like gangs would be a better fit for rp then conspitrators. They have to rp recruitment, create bases, they are not very well armed and they are quiet noticable.  I would especially like them if they spawned with a traitor who's tasked with killing the gang leader. To much of rp antagonism comes down to a single antag being gang stomped by a half dozen people. Gangs have just enough firepower they could pose an interesting new layer of complexity to station life on RP that I feel would be fabulous. It could also allow sec to prep to do cool thingsthey don't get to do. Like raid or create profiles or interrogate to get names.
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#7
(09-06-2022, 01:24 AM)Silent Majority Wrote: Changelings

Due to the way escalation rules work, and changes to being able to feed off npcs, lings have an uphill battle that I had to tap out of. Their primary power is an instant invisible dose of fast acting knockout juice. They then eat someone and essentially hold them hostage. Due to the way we function, in rp, the ling is incentivezed to give only the most passing rp and in my long experience, usually just walks up to you and stings you and say's hi. I do not find them interesting or fun to be or go against, they're rp potential is too often squanderd by  press button to win button.

As someone who sees potential in RPing a fun changeling. I 100% agree with this notion that for disallowing the Changeling to feed off NPCs limits their "non killing" RP, but still doing silly fun RP using most of their abillities.
Example: I like doing "Shitty Bill Epidemic" or "One of us epidemic" RP, so I absorb the NPCs in the diner to achieve enough points to do so.
Then I start infecting people at random so people get paranoid and before you know it... Shitty Bills are everywhere! TOTAL CHAOS!
(Or do a shitty bill cult where everyone becomes shitty bill)

Now don't get me wrong... changelings now have to kill and be more noticable wich is good, but... unlike vampires that can take abit of blood to get powers and let their victims live to give them an edge. Changelings have to knock out and kill people...
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#8
I think most of us on rp are tired of the shitty bill epidemic....I've seen it soooo many times now
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#9
(09-06-2022, 07:07 PM)Silent Majority Wrote: I think most of us on rp are tired of the shitty bill epidemic....I've seen it soooo many times now
Father Jack plague incoming in 5,4,3,2
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#10
Well I had a longer post but it got wiped after my mouse glitched out and refreshed the page, mad about that one.

Allowed: Conspirators. Oh christ where do I even begin. First off, they CAN be fun, but in my 1000+ hours of playing as an RP main I've genuinely only seen one fun conspirator shift. Every other time it leaves security, crew and even the conspirators just... Confused, or upset. How many people do you see saying they love this antag? I believe they encourage interacting with a select few due to their mechanics, even if we have tasks assigned, barely any listen to them and I've seen many complain they're lackluster. A good conspiracy is a funny gimmick or otherwise plan that involves more than just security or your singular assassaination target, like one that I saw take over a section of maintenance as cave men in trash bags equipped with spears. A bad conspiracy leaves people wondering if it was extended, or on the flip side leaves me thinking that in all honesty, this antag is more suited to classic.

Disallowed: Werewolves. 100% all the way. They're safer than some antags on classic due to how people will just RP with you. They may be strong, but they come with actual counterplay. Silver cuffs and bullets provide security with ways to deal with a rampaging werewolf, along with the crew if things get that pressed. Compared to something like changeling that comes with a hit button to win and don't yell or it's meta mechanic, that's now encouraged to quickly RP with someone just enough to kill them with the NPC changes, I think a real fight with a werewolf would be a fresh experience. I'm all for an antag that is strong but at least lets you punch back, run and scream as you're being killed. There's rich RP opportunity with being a sneaky werewolf too, crewmates dropping off while you gear up as a human and reveal your true form before going in for a kill. I do think they're too loud noise wise though, primarily the howl.

Honorable mentions: I love wraith with all my heart and even if they can be chaotic, I think that's okay. Plus the rework PR comes bundles with more RP abilities and counterplay. Flockmind is an antag I would LOVE to see on RP with maybe a buff to their communication and a heigher nuke cost on RP.
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