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Restrict access to AI chamber cameras
#1
I've had a few rounds where I've seen in (usual sec-radio) that somebody was checking the AI cams and noticed a new law in the rack. 

I've had an antag game were 15~ish seconds after putting a new law in and leaving, I hear: "AI IS ROGUE THERE'S A NEW LAW IN THE RACK" over the radio. 

I feel like this is pretty darn cheesy, and having people constantly monitor the AI cams to see if there's a new law takes out all the fun for both the antag uploading a law, and the AI who gets to run with the new law. 

It's relatively minor and I don't really expect much positive feedback from this, but at least to me personally it just sucks the fun out of any sort of law-change due to the fact that it can easily be detected within seconds if someone's just constantly checking the cameras.
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#2
Perhaps instead, the rack has a cover that can be pulled up/down which covers the laws.
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#3
(05-22-2022, 11:21 AM)Rmeaper Wrote: Perhaps instead, the rack has a cover that can be pulled up/down which covers the laws.

Would seem like a simple solution, though I expect people would powerplay and just go move the cover early on (which might actually give even more information to people observing the rack occasionally on cameras).

Could have it "spring-loaded" or whatever, in that it closes itself after a time.
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#4
Yea that is an annoying thing...but then again removing a rogue law is harder to do these days too..
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#5
We could also just ditch the law racks and go back to how it used to be.
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#6
(05-22-2022, 11:30 AM)Mordent Wrote:
(05-22-2022, 11:21 AM)Rmeaper Wrote: Perhaps instead, the rack has a cover that can be pulled up/down which covers the laws.

Would seem like a simple solution, though I expect people would powerplay and just go move the cover early on (which might actually give even more information to people observing the rack occasionally on cameras).

Could have it "spring-loaded" or whatever, in that it closes itself after a time.

Having them automatically close after a few moments seems great.

Adding more upgrades (perhaps giving the AI sechuds or something), like the hologram boards could further muddle if the AI is rogue, or simply upgraded.
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#7
I suppose you could cut the cameras in the room, though that's suspicious in itself.

I don't think we should discourage good sleuthing, but shutter is good. Make it the person who tampers with it has to take the care to cover their own tracks
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#8
Just steal the whole AI rack and rogue the AI elsewhere. A cover just shows that someone has something to hide, and anyone legit would obviously just leave it open anyways.
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#9
(05-22-2022, 05:07 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: I suppose you could cut the cameras in the room, though that's suspicious in itself.

I don't think we should discourage good sleuthing, but shutter is good. Make it the person who tampers with it has to take the care to cover their own tracks

I kinda agree with this, if someone is doing "camera duty" and you get caught. Means someone is doing their job well.
Then again... subverting the AI is harder to do if a camera can do it, so yea add a shutter.

Getting into AI without being detected is hard as balls to begin with unless you have the right ID.

As for the shutter... A lil thing to add, but the wraith already has trouble subverting the AI like in the old days due to the new system and wraiths have asked for help on this... but...this shutter will shut down everything no?
Even if they could possess the freeform, change it's content and self install (they can't)
Now the shutter is in the way too... Just food for thought.
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#10
(05-23-2022, 02:29 AM)Kotlol Wrote: Getting into AI without being detected is hard as balls to begin with unless you have the right ID.

Getting in is painfully easy:
Command member? You're in
Stole an ID? You're in
Wizard? You're in
Biomass manipulation? You're in
You're a clown? You're in
HOP or cap is treasonous? Half of the station have an AA and you're in

And plenty more ways. 


The law rack is good and balanced as it is. If someone saw a fourth law, if means they are doing some good job being on cams, considering the whole point of crimes is to monitor sensible areas.
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#11
(05-23-2022, 05:03 AM)Chatauscours Wrote:
(05-23-2022, 02:29 AM)Kotlol Wrote: Getting into AI without being detected is hard as balls to begin with unless you have the right ID.

Getting in is painfully easy:
Command member? You're in
Stole an ID? You're in
Wizard? You're in
Biomass manipulation? You're in
You're a clown? You're in
HOP or cap is treasonous? Half of the station have an AA and you're in

And plenty more ways. 


The law rack is good and balanced as it is. If someone saw a fourth law, if means they are doing some good job being on cams, considering the whole point of crimes is to monitor sensible areas.

Kinda wrong.. cause the camera's are suppose to see crimes in action. While something like MISSING CAPTAIN SPARE is fine to spot since it doesn't mean someone is INSTANTLY undoing the work of the crimer. It means the crime was noticed.

With subverting the AI, seeing the 4th law it instantly is spotted, being delt with and evidence gathered to arrest the culprit (unless AI didn't see, Gloves and such.)

With Spare ID you can also find evidence, but at the very least the culprit still has to be caught. With subverting AI, the culprits work is almost instantly undone depending how the AI responds.... They aren't "Busted in the act" wich is what Cameras are for in my opinion. They are busted cause they can't hide the evidence of their work. Or if it's spotted, enjoy the labor of their crime till security tracks them down.

Aka there is no "Delay" of fixing it. That's why Antags are angry. Unless Antags get a fun new tool to subvert the live image of a camera like we see in heist movies.
Infact that might be better.... Where the camera is hacked and shows a previous log image or something? That way only if it's seen in person will the crime be noticed.
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#12
I'm partial to mouse's suggestion lol

In seriousness, versus having to finesse this element or that element here and there for some ultra immaculate meticulous scheme to overcome, I think that's one thing those crusty computers had right; there wasnt a need for extensive mechanical bloat and knowledge for people to engage with the feature, it really was just break in, find your favorite law module, smack PC. At least with the racks, I think the simplicity of "break in, find your favorite law module, smack law rack (welding optional)" is good without having some convoluted "next, we unscrew the cover plate from overtop the CPU, and then we must cut the plate off with our welding tool..."

If there's a way to do something about checking the modules from cams, a cover plate imo is not the way to do it.
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#13
What if we just changed the sprite and have it not update with new laws.
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#14
(05-23-2022, 05:21 AM)nefarious6th Wrote: I'm partial to mouse's suggestion lol

In seriousness, versus having to finesse this element or that element here and there for some ultra immaculate meticulous scheme to overcome, I think that's one thing those crusty computers had right; there wasnt a need for extensive mechanical bloat and knowledge for people to engage with the feature, it really was just break in, find your favorite law module, smack PC. At least with the racks, I think the simplicity of "break in, find your favorite law module, smack law rack (welding optional)" is good without having some convoluted "next, we unscrew the cover plate from overtop the CPU, and then we must cut the plate off with our welding tool..."

If there's a way to do something about checking the modules from cams, a cover plate imo is not the way to do it.

Let alone, Wraiths can once again possess the freeform module and use it to subvert AI's.

Though what I like about Lawracks is the fact we can fix Emagged Laws 1-3 without going advanced. Just print new ones.

Since in the old system, resetting the AI didn't always fix Emagged laws.

The rack on the other hand stops constant AI uploads, stops name changes, it shows what laws and modules are added, stops freeform module theft (upload new law, steal freeform to redo it the whole time) and also makes resetting the AI much more complex, but messing with the AI more fun.
Also the rack can be copied to have a second set of AI laws for certain borgs wich is ANOTHER PLUS.

Maybe we should consolidate both versions of the law changes.
1 being the Law Rack but put it in Robotics Core.
The other being the console at AI upload.

The lawrack now has blank modules in them to respond to the AI console modules. So if a freeform law is uploaded, it uploads it to Module 4.

This way you can still have the OLD SYSTEM, but attack it from 2 areas.
You can either reset the laws at the console or replace the laws in the rack at Robotics.

That way we get the best of both worlds.
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#15
(05-23-2022, 07:47 AM)Kotlol Wrote: Though what I like about Lawracks is the fact we can fix Emagged Laws 1-3 without going advanced. Just print new ones.

By the way, you can multitool a futzed up law to reset the board and then put it back in.

A cover on the rack might be fine. i don't think it's that big a deal either way
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