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Revert AI lawracks
#16


also:

(03-26-2022, 02:23 PM)ZeWaka Wrote:
(03-26-2022, 02:13 PM)KikiMofo Wrote: Not really a fan of multiple law racks. We already get confused with the multiple AI stuff now
Now its multiple AIs with their own laws

We already had multiple law racks essentially before, with Syndicate cyborgs and emagged cyborgs representing two other 'law sets.'

emagged isn't a law set, it is no laws, and it comes with a very obvious visual tell. there is no way to fix an emagged cyborg.

the syndicate laws were also not truly a rack, because again, they were not physical. there is no way to interact with the syndicate lawset; it is an immutable property of the world, and like emagging, there is no way to fix or convert a syndicate borg. similarly, there is no way to convert to it and it is impossible to create one without a traitor item
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#17
Wait destroying a law rack removes the laws from all silicons connected to the rack?  Seems like that removes any and all motivation for the AI to prevent the rack from being destroyed then.
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#18
A few fixes in mind for the future... Just suggestions.

1: If a rack is destroyed and no rack is available, all borgs and AI will revert to standard laws (unless EMAGGED).
This means a rack 2 will always benefical to be defended. It also means if a rack is fucked up beyond belief, you can blow it up.
To medigate meta game of "DESTROYING THE RACK" so no one can upload... Ion laws will be placed within this "No rack system"
As well as the new rack.

2: Hardocded laws without rack are only accessible via the bridge and use the old system of module installation or Robotics core.
Thus giving more viablity to the old modules and robotics control/core. Seriously you barely go there unless you need to "Kill a borg" or "Get a reset module"
Infact there are servers there most of the time on data tape.. something to consider? Robotics control only takes over if no rack is detected.
Thus giving both antags and security a reason to guard it or take it over or blowing up the rack.

3: Remove the standard welding to the rack...it's obnoxious. Screwdriver is enough. Make welding an option still, but by doing so you risk damaging the module, thus making the module go: "INVALID" It's a small chance for extra security.

4: because of the new "HARD CODED LAWS" system in place. it means it's easier to subvert the AI laws/Borg laws by making a new rack.
Thus forcing antags to guard a rack but so does security. Thus removing a whole war over the modules and camping the AI upload chamber.
The rack system makes both parties by more proactive. To not make it a shit fest of rack wars...make an ID check possible for the highest command to apply.
HoS > Captain > HoP > Other commands. Captain spare IDs are on HoP level, thus forcing antags to kill the captain insted of swiping the spare.
Any other made IDs by the HoP will be on HoP level too.

5: The adding of the old AI upload also means anyone can make those laws anywhere. Normally I would say you need a command ID to even log into there to do this, but since this new system means an antag has to A: "build the upload somewhere else and stealing it" and B: "Blow up the rack" The whole uploading and stealing modules is fine. I do recommend being able to ORDER NEW MODULES in the future, but it gets expensive and is command locked.

6: Finally... since both new and old are hand in hand in a way. It means good ole subverting the AI is much harder for wraiths, so I add one more thing.
"THE RACK CAN BE EMAGGED" Thus giving the AI/Borgs no laws from that rack or all kinds of Ion laws. Or heck.. it even makes the rack go down completely and forces it go to the "Old hard coded modules"
It just means Wraith's antags still have to work harder to subvert the AI then just 1 module, but making it slightly easier as the EMAG wipes the laws?
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#19
I had a really strange experience with it where there were two law racks, one in robotics, one in upload, but the AI was rogue. It was the strangest thing as we would constantly be checking on the law rack within robotics and upload to find neither of them were broken. Noone knew what was going on and if the AI was just a self antag, or if there was a third law rack in the middle of nowhere. We ended up having to kill the AI because we assumed there was just a random third rack. Turns out, robotics kept taking out and reinserting the law whenever we'd go there (I only got told this post round so it may not be 100% accurate) but the whole situation was just frustrating in strange.

I also believe the law rack in a lot of ways makes it harder for an unprepared antag to rogue the AI, due to the large amount of tools needed to mess around with it. Like sure, you couldve made it all the way into the upload (which is very very difficult on some maps like oshan and kondaru where on highpop, there is always someone walking by it), but if you forgot a welder or something or dont have a multitool, you can't mess things up.

I thought the law rack was going to be a good change, and while I dont dislike it as much, I believe it makes trying to rogue, and unrogue the silicons a lot more frustrating
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#20
Not sure if this was the round where I was the first primary AI. I had a ion law change to law 1 to contain humans safely. I was killswotvhed as someone was removing and replacing my law 1 in my rack. I only had the one rack assigned to me the law rack in robotics was only assigned to the robotics secondary AI
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#21
It wasn’t that round, all laws were normal on both racks when we’d check it and we beat the AI to death on the shuttle
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#22
I think having some in-game log for when laws are taken out or put in that can't be tampered with at all would be helpful, like sure it's a smoking gun if you're fucking with the laws a lot but it'd save far more headaches than it'd cause imo
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#23
(03-28-2022, 10:13 AM)Waffleloffle Wrote: I think having some in-game log for when laws are taken out or put in that can't be tampered with at all would be helpful, like sure it's a smoking gun if you're fucking with the laws a lot but it'd save far more headaches than it'd cause imo

could be an awesome idea if it's on the robotics PC -OR- the command killswitch PC
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#24
Personally I dont like the cooldown between adding and removing laws, even in the previous system where it was far easier to spam laws (as in click one thing versus click 2 things), law spamming was rare. I think its a rare enough thing that it doesnt need a mechanical solution and can just be a thing for the admins to deal with.

Honestly while Id give it like, one more week just in case, I think the multiple law racks is proving to be too much of a mess to deal with. Personally, I feel like just having there only be one rack, plus that rack being physically indestructible would fix 99% of the issues with the rack. Though this is a bit extreme. However, if we want to keep the multiple racks thing, Id suggest removing the linker and giving the linker functionality to any multitool. I think the roboticists having the linker tool implicitly tells them making multiple racks and shit is something you're intended to do as a part of your job (instead of something they have the option to do). Also There isnt anything mechanically unique about how the linker works that justifies it being its own item (all its interactions are related to interacting with something however its not really something you'll interact with by itself). Not to mention, it makes dealing with multiple law racks for people who aren't roboticists more messy then it needs to be, with them now needing to go to robotics to be able to check. Just having a standard multitool be able to do it would fix these issues.
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