Thread Rating:
  • 6 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[PR] changes nanomed access to medlocker access
#16
(03-23-2022, 04:21 PM)glowbold Wrote: The way I feel cross-departmental interaction works often is like a bonus multiplier effect. The chef can do basic stuff alone, but an even mildly cooperative botanist/rancher gives significantly more options.

Having access to medbay as a whole, even without the vendors, still gives officers a lot of options for recovery; surgery, cryo, cloning, use of whatever basic supplies are around; usually a lot from round start. Security would still have access to general healing options, and doctors could provide faster / more refined care. That said, I think there are situations which security should be prepared for in some way, both practically and thematically.


Alongside this change, add some auto-injectors to SecTech vendors for medicines that security could be expected to need, but would now be locked out of completely. Tweaking which meds and how many auto-injectors should be included is a more nuanced discussion, and a lot easier to discuss and adjust.

My take is that they would have access to meds for both emergency stabilization like atropine/salbutamol, and curing injuries basic meds won't ever address, like occuline/mannitol.

That would give the sectech too much clutter, plus there aren't enough supplies sitting around in medbay for basic healing other than the cryopod, which if you need to get back in the fight right away isn't a good option.
Reply
#17
Maybe we can make dereliction of duty a crime so if doctors are refusing to dispense meds for injured secoffs you can arrest them and take their IDs.

But then again this thread has reminded me that the average goonstation player has a crippling fear of being even slightly dependent on another person so this idea is probably already dead.
Reply
#18
I like this idea. I see too many officers going and powergaming meds for every ailment under the sun, and in turn be basically unkillable by antagonists. Most rounds the venders get hacked pretty quick if the doctors aren't doing their job anyway, so it won't be too much of an issue if the doctors aren't doing their job. Personally I never play doctor as i feel useless, because most jobs can heal themself before I can get to them as a doctor, and this would be another step in a good direction.
Reply
#19
Alright so the reason is to remove access to security and the janitor and require joint cooperation. Next question is, why do we need to do that?

Originally security vendors had a medkit you could get, the same kind that MDs start with. This was seen as a bit too OP, because every officer was a walking medic as well. I saw this as a fair thing to remove, since it was a bit op, but the reason it was in in the first place was to stop Sec from raiding medbay (On main.) Now we get donuts to heal ourselves, which is weird but its an alternative. These donuts come in two types and can stabilize you but not really heal you from two donuts. Also its a donut, you literally have no basis on the amount each donut is going to heal you so most folks just eat the whole damn thing and now its gone.

Security already can't open medical lockers so we can't get medkits there, so a good process is already to just go to QM and buy medkits there if you need them, or take the ones laying around on station side. Now if we're dying and need healing we have to go to a medical checkpoint, gasping and barely be able to call the AI through deathgasps via radio gimmick or PDA and hope that they aren't busy with a staffie telling the AI to open a door because he is stuck with a bunch of monkeys. Or worse, the AI is rogue, because if security is getting beat up the AI is likely rogue. This also is just one more thing on a list of things that the AI is going to get grief for, because an officer is going to request medical patches to be vended and some other person is going to request it to fulfill a cargo order while some staffie is breaking into the upload and the sec officer out front is demanding it open its upload so that it can stop them. AI ROGUE AI ROGUE WON'T LISTEN.

Why do we keep taking healing away from security like this? Is this because of some roleplay thing that I'm not understanding? Main is chaos and at 100 pop you need autonomy sometimes and this absolutely takes away from it. If Classic was LRP instead of NRP then hell yeah this seems nice, but our medical system is also super simple and its just pick up patch, slap on booboo walk away. If we had a more robust medical system, then you'd have a more inter-department reliance on each other, but all this seems to do is hurt security and Patch Adams the Janitor, who knows more than the rest of medical because all of them a brand new.

So besides just saying this takes it away from Security and Janitors, please tell me WHY you need to or want to take it away from Security and Janitors.
Reply
#20
(03-24-2022, 12:17 PM)RGBDeadSilent Wrote: So besides just saying this takes it away from Security and Janitors, please tell me WHY you need to or want to take it away from Security and Janitors.

so antagonists can actually have a chance to kill lone officers without them pulling 12 different healing items out of their belt and tanking everything you can throw at them.
Reply
#21
(03-24-2022, 11:59 AM)Lady Birb Wrote: Maybe we can make dereliction of duty a crime so if doctors are refusing to dispense meds for injured secoffs you can arrest them and take their IDs.

Sounds like a great way to start unnecessary conflict.

(03-24-2022, 12:23 PM)Lady Birb Wrote: so antagonists can actually have a chance to kill lone officers without them pulling 12 different healing items out of their belt and tanking everything you can throw at them.

Antagonists can kill officers quite easily, actually. They are given tools to do so. A sleepypen full of lethal garbage will take them out before they realize what's happening, a well placed lube slip can take their baton from them and totally turn the fight. Two c-sabers to the head hurt you so bad you have to fight or die, and three basically finish you.
Reply
#22
(03-24-2022, 12:23 PM)Lady Birb Wrote:
(03-24-2022, 12:17 PM)RGBDeadSilent Wrote: So besides just saying this takes it away from Security and Janitors, please tell me WHY you need to or want to take it away from Security and Janitors.

so antagonists can actually have a chance to kill lone officers without them pulling 12 different healing items out of their belt and tanking everything you can throw at them.

Most antag abilities kill or disable officers in less than 5s. I think the big issue instead is the fact that crit doesn't inset fast enough. Cardiac arrest takes forever to build up into stuns and players still move too fast in crit. Worse, 100 health or -200 health, when you stand up that punch you swing still does full damage. If you hurt someone you'd hope they can't stand up and heal themselves, thats the issue.
Reply
#23
(03-24-2022, 11:59 AM)Lady Birb Wrote: Maybe we can make dereliction of duty a crime so if doctors are refusing to dispense meds for injured secoffs you can arrest them and take their IDs.

"Hey, you didn't hear me calling over the radio so it's 3 minutes in the brig for you and a demotion to Medass."

I don't want to do that. Even if it becomes a crime it won't really be enforced on Classic - and even if it was, again, i don't want to brig someone because they didn't see me calling for help.

Not only do I not want to do that, i don't think others want that done to them.

We are now analyzing the possiblity of criminalizing behaviour that can be chalked up to a very very minor mistake, and punishing it with brig time nonetheless.

This would end up being a far more common ocurrence than the occasional secoff nabbing a patch of styptic from medbay.

So now we've gone with the occasional or maybe even frequent issue that can be dealt with by ahelping to a much bigger one where medbay personnel are getting brig time for a simple mistake. Not to mention that every doctor in the brig is a doctor not out and about helping people so it makes the original problem even worse.

I'm sorry, but there's just no way this can work.
Reply
#24
yall are underestimating how fast a mechanic hacks those venders anyway. I think its a good change. If you look at security on main which is whats being argued over here, its almost always stacked with a full secteam, sometimes even a hos and NTSO. Unless a select 5 of us comfertable with handling that many security roll antag, the round is usually very boring, as antags get curbstomped by security. less heals R good.
Reply
#25
Security just got hit with a vendor nerf. Disruptor battery costs 2 utility points. Can either buy healing, or the ability to consistantly arrest folks with your battery.

Since you can get healing elsewhere, this is likely just going to have us roll back to what use to happen when we didn't have real access to healing. Security is going to round start make a run for medbay and loot medical supplies, which means we also need to get gloves and tools to do it. So it might just enforce tiding and law breaking on securities part and I don't like it.
Reply
#26
oh boy i cannot wait to see even more officers speedrunning insulated gloves from their local mechanics lab even more often, since thats what theyre going to need to hack them
Reply
#27
Removing medical access for front line workers (being security) will be a determent to playstyles. Currently, there is no need to deal with the messy work of having to get someone to access things for you, so the ease at which security can manage and help others is facilitated by this access. Cutting it will create a reliance on staff that may not be able to respond as timely or as well. This adds a new level of communication that will add on to what should be a timely act, grabbing life saving material. This creates an incentive for players to cut through that "bullshit" and simply hack the machines in more earnest, thus creating more of the same problem.

Its understandable from a role playing point of view, as incentivizing player communication and cooperation is the name of the game there.

But do not implement this for classic, you WILL be creating more problems. Do not force players who rely on these items to have one more barrier in grabbing them. We will find a way around it and the new meta you create will only result in more frustrated players.
Reply
#28
I just find it ironic that Security will have to hack the Med Vendors an action that would land any other role in a questionable position at best.
Reply
#29
Honestly, I dont think this is as much of a sec off self healing nerf in most circumstances as many people think. While I do get theres not always doctors and I'll admit, I dont often play sec off, even without medical access and no doctors you can still heal yourself up fine. But even at a doctorless medbay, while it's not as good as if a doctor was healing with you, if you spot some medkits (which 99% of the time theyre in the open) or manage to make your way to cryo (which considering secoffs will still have medical access this is easy), you have a lot of your healing set out for you. Not only that, but sec offs make bank in terms of credits, which allows them to buy all the meds they could ever want from public nanomeds.

The main thing this nerfs for sec offs is using is the port a nanomed, and honestly find rushing that pda module too strong for how easy it is to obtain. First off, Ive always considered that to be a doctor specific tool thematically, so the ability for it to basically effortlessly become part of a sec offs toolset doesn't seem right. Outside of thematics, to be able to spend like 100 credits and now have access to a full arsenal of healing for every scenario, is just bad. You dont need additional access nor talk to anyone, you just head to a vending machine, spend a trivial amount of credits for a sec off (and for all jobs tbh, needing to hack the vendor to get the module probably wouldnt be a bad idea), and now you have the healing ability of a doctor.
Reply
#30
(03-24-2022, 03:20 PM)Froggit_Dogget Wrote: If you look at security on main which is whats being argued over here

The PR is about preventing sec players on the RP servers from breaking the "stay in your lane" rule that states you must do your job and not someone else's. There is, apparently, an issue with G3/4 sec teams abusing the access they have to treat themselves, as well as treating suspects and sometimes even random people, and that's when they're not hoarding medical items for themselves.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)