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Remove the ammo limit from the 40mm assault pod weapon
#1
A long, long time ago (I think it was pre-2015) the 40mm pod weapons were nerfed to include an ammo limit - this made sense at the time, as it was super destructive back then and there were very few options to counter pods.

However, pod warfare options have changed significantly over the years, and the 40mm pod weapon has since went from something you could consider buying to oh-god-why-would-you-even.
It sucks, is expensive, and will likely get you killed the first time you get engaged.

Some of the immediate reasons why:
A) security has significantly gained anti-pod options over the years :
with the armory receiving further additions to what they contain, security has a ton of effective anti-pod options.
From the free laser pod weapons (which will tear the slow firing 40mm pods apart) to the pod seeking grenades that any guy can wield with the riot launcher (with spacesuit + jetpack, they can easily dance around the slow firing 40mm pod, which has no hope of hitting them with their slow firing rate).

This is not counting the various pulse rifles and shotguns that are already present. Nor the pod taser weapons that can indefinitely stun a pod and slowly destroy it.

B) a 40mm pod can be easily dispatched by ANY pod weapon, unless they get lucky:
podfights strongly depends on how often you can hit, and how often you can avoid being hit. This often devolves into a dogfight of both sides firing as much as they can at the other pod. You know what the 40mm loses out on?
1) their ability to sustain fire at the enemy's direction (ammo limit)
2) fire rate (the 40mm's fire rate is glacial)

Yes, even phasers pods. Anyone with a civ-tier pod can facehug your 40mm pod to make you blow yourself up when you fire.

C) Pod warfare had changed to include a number of weaknesses :
Pods can be stunned/disoriented by anyone with a fire extinguisher/toolbox/etc hitting it. This disrupts it from being able to fly away fast enough and also disrupts it from firing.
I mentioned in point (A) that a spacesuited guy can dance around you with pod seeking grenades - any miner with a pickaxe or power hammer will absolutely wreck a 40mm pod unless a lucky shot is landed (which incidentally will also damage the pod from AoE)

D) the current state of the 40mm pod is weak :
With the current state of limited ammunition, a 40mm pod weapon can at most moderately damage 1-2 space facing hallways or departments before running dry. There are a number of reasons why this is.
1) Pod accuracy is horrible as it relies on fixed directionals
2) Pods currently eat roughly 10-20% of their own shots due to pods flying INTO their own projectiles.
3) Reason 2 above sucks less if you have weaker weapons. eating your own 40mm shots HURT bad.
4) For the above reasons, the assault laser is a better pick to cause sustained station damage. it has a more decent chance in a pod fight too, although lasers/strelka will still wreck it.

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When was the last time a 40mm pod has done a good chunk of damage to the station? In the past almost decade of on-off playing and hiatuses, I have not seen it do much.

I don't think people even buy the thing anymore - buying the nades and firing them with a riot launcher works way better.
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#2
I saw someone gib a good chunk of escape a few weeks back with the 40mm.
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#3
yea if you hit someone with it they gib.. I used these before on gangs after I got my gang to reinforce the entire station floor and it was glorious.
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#4
I believe the 40MM isn't suppose to be used to WIN POD WARS. But to do as much station damage and killing as possible.
Thus it makes sense why they are locked away.

A good use of 40MM will break part of the station and atleast secure some kills and we know Sec isn't the fastest to respond to a 40 MM Pod.
So by limiting ammo you gotta use the damage it can do carefully.

Perfect for assassinating targets or commands or thinning the security force.

Not good for Pod warfare.
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#5
Do we want a Star Wars analogy? It’s like bringing a Y-Wing to a conflict against a bunch of TIE fighters and expecting it to not get torn to pieces. Sure it might get lucky and get one or maybe two but it lacks the tools against that particular threat to deal with them effectively. Against some slow moving targets with no fighter escort the Y-Wing is devastating.
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#6
Devastating-in-the-right-circumstance is accurate, however the problem is that you will almost never have the circumstance to do so :

1) you would have to terminate all pods before hand (better done with any other pod weapon, otherwise RIP ammo count)
2) even without pods, any spacesuited guy with a jetpack can ruin your parade.
2) you will not have any form of escort/support as a singular antag. If you use the star wars analogy, who sends a bomber alone, with just enough ammo to vent one segment? Nukies can't buy the 40mm, and using the 40mm on gangs or revs is kind of questionable (basically rampaging or kill-all spree)

You could argue that you can mindslave someone to support you, but for what - a 2 minute shooting spree at escape before you run out of ammo? You could chembomb it in the same amount of time with a chem dispenser and without the exorbitant credit cost.
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#7
If your standard for "this is way too weak" is "how does this kill compared to chemistry" then I'm afraid that's literally everything that isn't chemistry.
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#8
(03-13-2022, 06:38 PM)Mouse Wrote: If your standard for "this is way too weak" is "how does this kill compared to chemistry" then I'm afraid that's literally everything that isn't chemistry.

Yes, on that note I am also suggesting it would be more fun for the crew to fight and deal with a 40mm pod terrorizing the station than hidden chembombs/TTVs/canister bombs across the station.

The ability to induce station-wide damage should be less exclusive to all things science.
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#9
(03-13-2022, 06:50 PM)Zafhset Wrote: The ability to induce station-wide damage should be less exclusive to all things science.

That is a statement I full heartedly support.
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#10
(03-13-2022, 06:50 PM)Zafhset Wrote:
(03-13-2022, 06:38 PM)Mouse Wrote: If your standard for "this is way too weak" is "how does this kill compared to chemistry" then I'm afraid that's literally everything that isn't chemistry.

Yes, on that note I am also suggesting it would be more fun for the crew to fight and deal with a 40mm pod terrorizing the station than hidden chembombs/TTVs/canister bombs across the station.

The ability to induce station-wide damage should be less exclusive to all things science.

They both sound utterly miserable and unfun.

Mass death and annoyance with no realistic counterplay or interaction beyond hoping they get cocky and try to fight you. Because otherwise you'll never find them or run into them.

Silent bomber, and silent weapon-pod-nerd are already the two most annoying things. I don't see the benefit in combining them.

Pods with unlimited hull-breaching explosives just means you'll have some jerk flying around in a tricked out pod blowing holes in the station and fleeing into space/jumping out without any particular hope to do anything about it. Because there's no such thing as radar, and you'll never find them if they put any effort at all into never being caught.
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#11
(03-14-2022, 01:24 AM)Love Wrote: They both sound utterly miserable and unfun.

Mass death and annoyance with no realistic counterplay or interaction beyond hoping they get cocky and try to fight you. Because otherwise you'll never find them or run into them.

Silent bomber, and silent weapon-pod-nerd are already the two most annoying things. I don't see the benefit in combining them.

Have you piloted or fought 40mm pod often? I refer back to point B in the main post : a 40mm pod will absolutely get shat on by most pods and should not be compared to a strelka nerd or scout laser/shotgun pod.

even by the virtue of AoE friendly firing itself, which happens a ton.

My suggestion doesn't involve changing the above things that kill it - there's already plenty of counterplay even if the 40mm had UNLIMITED ammo.

(03-14-2022, 01:24 AM)Love Wrote: Pods with unlimited hull-breaching explosives just means you'll have some jerk flying around in a tricked out pod blowing holes in the station and fleeing into space/jumping out without any particular hope to do anything about it. Because there's no such thing as radar, and you'll never find them if they put any effort at all into never being caught.

Pods/subs have radars you can use to track other pods/humans etc with though?
You are seriously overestimating a pod's ability to get away - the more armor a pod has, the slower it is. it also slows down significantly from doing turns/etc, something which jetpacked folks do not suffer.
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#12
It SHOULD get shat on by every other pod. If it could just snipe off everything that came at it, it would lack even that counterplay. Or else every HoP or person who steals the Captain's spare would have an invincible superweapon after a few clicks on a bank console to steal the shipping budget.

But other pods have to be where it is, and space is big. And you don't have some psychic knowledge of where the pod is, or will be. When it attacks, it still takes time for people to report it, and for people to respond. Nor is there any reason this theoretical infinite rocket pod can't be the Stelka nerd. Or be a gold pod, able to outrun people in a stern chase.

Through the magic of turning the pod around in the other direction and flying away instead of stupidly hanging around, you've done something where 95% of the station can't follow you. And where once you're off the screen, nobody will find you. Because space big, and you can warp around with wormholes. And then you can fly somewhere else and repeat while they're looking for you at the last attack. Rince and repeat. Over and over. Forever. With your armored, scylar nila'ing, infinite MPRT machine.

Sure, in some scenario where the entire station is mobilized, and ten pod nerds and circling the station, so you're bound to run into one, and people are mech-scanning jetpacks, you're boned. But... I mean, you should be. Anyone, ever, playing any antag, with anything, should be boned in that situation.

We don't give traitors bags of infinite grenades, or nukies infinite rocket launchers. And they're a lot more vulnerable and killable than a pod flying around the exterior of the station, darting in to blow the walls off.
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#13
(03-14-2022, 07:19 AM)Love Wrote: It SHOULD get shat on by every other pod. If it could just snipe off everything that came at it, it would lack even that counterplay. Or else every HoP or person who steals the Captain's spare would have an invincible superweapon after a few clicks on a bank console to steal the shipping budget.

But other pods have to be where it is, and space is big. And you don't have some psychic knowledge of where the pod is, or will be. When it attacks, it still takes time for people to report it, and for people to respond. Nor is there any reason this theoretical infinite rocket pod can't be the Stelka nerd. Or be a gold pod, able to outrun people in a stern chase.

Through the magic of turning the pod around in the other direction and flying away instead of stupidly hanging around, you've done something where 95% of the station can't follow you. And where once you're off the screen, nobody will find you. Because space big, and you can warp around with wormholes. And then you can fly somewhere else and repeat while they're looking for you at the last attack. Rince and repeat. Over and over. Forever. With your armored, scylar nila'ing, infinite MPRT machine.

Sure, in some scenario where the entire station is mobilized, and ten pod nerds and circling the station, so you're bound to run into one, and people are mech-scanning jetpacks, you're boned. But... I mean, you should be. Anyone, ever, playing any antag, with anything, should be boned in that situation.

We don't give traitors bags of infinite grenades, or nukies infinite rocket launchers. And they're a lot more vulnerable and killable than a pod flying around the exterior of the station, darting in to blow the walls off.

Also if you want to be a loud explosive traitor. Goon ain't the place for that.
Let alone every griever will try to pull this stunt as it's not a traitor only thing I believe.

Again if you want to go this route, make it count. That's what it's for. It's suppose to be hard and surprising.

The point of this thing is: "When I do it, people will kill me in a fight."

Uuh yea.. so is carrying a cannister bomb and holding it out in the open as your ONLY weapon.
You want to do this? Go for it. But people will response fiercely thus you gotta rely on other weapons.
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#14
TBH i wouldnt be opposed, every way to get enough money to buy the thing has been considerably nerfed, so its not really worth its price currently.
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#15
(03-14-2022, 08:44 AM)Kotlol Wrote:
(03-14-2022, 07:19 AM)Love Wrote: It SHOULD get shat on by every other pod. If it could just snipe off everything that came at it, it would lack even that counterplay. Or else every HoP or person who steals the Captain's spare would have an invincible superweapon after a few clicks on a bank console to steal the shipping budget.

But other pods have to be where it is, and space is big. And you don't have some psychic knowledge of where the pod is, or will be. When it attacks, it still takes time for people to report it, and for people to respond. Nor is there any reason this theoretical infinite rocket pod can't be the Stelka nerd. Or be a gold pod, able to outrun people in a stern chase.

Through the magic of turning the pod around in the other direction and flying away instead of stupidly hanging around, you've done something where 95% of the station can't follow you. And where once you're off the screen, nobody will find you. Because space big, and you can warp around with wormholes. And then you can fly somewhere else and repeat while they're looking for you at the last attack. Rince and repeat. Over and over. Forever. With your armored, scylar nila'ing, infinite MPRT machine.

Sure, in some scenario where the entire station is mobilized, and ten pod nerds and circling the station, so you're bound to run into one, and people are mech-scanning jetpacks, you're boned. But... I mean, you should be. Anyone, ever, playing any antag, with anything, should be boned in that situation.

We don't give traitors bags of infinite grenades, or nukies infinite rocket launchers. And they're a lot more vulnerable and killable than a pod flying around the exterior of the station, darting in to blow the walls off.

Also if you want to be a loud explosive traitor. Goon ain't the place for that.
Let alone every griever will try to pull this stunt as it's not a traitor only thing I believe.

Again if you want to go this route, make it count. That's what it's for. It's suppose to be hard and surprising.

The point of this thing is: "When I do it, people will kill me in a fight."

Uuh yea.. so is carrying a cannister bomb and holding it out in the open as your ONLY weapon.
You want to do this? Go for it. But people will response fiercely thus you gotta rely on other weapons.

I'm sorry what?


TTVs, Single Tanks, Art Bombs, Grenades which are orderable as a traitor, Black Powder, Nitro (rip), not to mention all the fun nuclear gadgets is pretty loud and explosive me thinks. And these are all on goon. Which nitro was removed for the problem of it being too big and too explosive too often (thanks nerds). So yeah, I think buffing probably hands down one of the worst pod weapons at the moment isnt a bad idea. Which, we should increase the strength of kinetics anyways for pod weaponry. Or give lasers ammo as well, I'm up for either. 

Also on loves points
Your really overestimating the power of the 40mm. Not only do sensors make it so your tracked, you also leave a pod portal. The station usually has a strelka or someone up in a pod patrolling looking for you once you start unloading with the 40mm unless your cloaked (which both are wayyyy overpriced to the point where if you got money for one you got money for the other) It's also no where near RPG strenght in its booms, as while it is a insta gib, it's a insta gib for the person who gets it by it compared to the fairly large killzone of the RPG. Not only that, but it has no where near the portability, with pods being fucked as soon as you walk into a interior hall. Or corridor. Or really anywhere that isnt a podbay/outside a window. Subs its different, but for subs your also going to get stunlocked by some nerd with a extinguisher anyways .
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