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Ban appeal for retrino banned by unknown
#1
My IRC/Discord Username: Retrino
Date and time of the ban: 11/4/21 11:36 pm, cst
Who banned me: Unknown

Message given in the kick, if present: You were banned from Goonstation | The both of you can appeal this ban whenever you feel like both dropping the disruptive schtick in #spaceman-discussion like you've been asked to, and not sassing about the fact that you've been asked to stop it before.

Summary of events leading up to the ban: I don’t have screenshots, since the ban was sort of unexpected, and I can’t get in to take any regarding what I think was relevant to it (I do have a separate account, but I’m not sure if using it to get screenshots would be considered evading, so better safe than sorry). I’m not sure specifically what part of the conversation got attention, but I have a few guesses. Initially, I had replied to something Nihisohel said in RP chat, which was probably the first time in quite a while we had talked directly to one another on the server. As soon as we began talking a bit, a couple of others chimed in saying to take it to dms, and to not “do this here”. I’ll be honest, this did upset me. I talk to many others one on one in the main server chats, whether conversation, jokingly prodding at each other, etc, and it has never been an issue. We’ve been told (by other players) to not talk to each other in a public chat, I don’t particularly see why we shouldn’t. I'm not sure why any my interactions with them are interpreted as being a schtick. RP is joked as being general for RP players, often changing subjects within minutes. I don't see why a couple messages between us is any more disruptive than anything else. The chat in spaceman-discussion was with multiple people as well, where it was just a flow of topics (which is pretty typical for the chat, and no one in that channel was upset that we weren't talking about space)

Focusing on the end of the ban appeal, specifically the not sassing about the fact that you've been asked to stop it before, bit. I’m not sure where this came from. During the conversations that took place (which I would like to point out, included multiple people, not just the two of us), the only references to admins in general was a joke I made saying “nihisohel is sharing his opinion again, admins come get him”. This wasn’t talking about the previous warning whatsoever. The other possible connection I can think of is when I said I’d get banned for making a joke about something. Which, just for full transparency, the joke was going to be something dumb about me and his mom, and was too rule 4 to actually say. Hence the “I’d get banned” bit.

Also worth mentioning, the last time we had been warned about this was (this is an estimate based off my dms from medicalassistant, I haven’t had many so I’m pretty sure its accurate) back in June, when we were told to stop cussing at each other, saying “fuck you” and just generally being annoying. Since then, there haven’t been any warnings that I’ve been given, and my interactions with them have been pretty tame.

Why I should be unbanned: Personally, this appeal is mostly for the sake of an explanation, if not a direct appeal approval. I do understand the annoyance of those in the past when we were a lot more obnoxious in public channels, but it's been quite a while since that has been an issue. Any interactions as of late have been on par with how I’d talk to anyone, joking around or discussing random stuff. I enjoy being able to have that kind of openness in a community, and it feels pretty bad being banned over this, with no warning, no end date, etc.
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#2
Still wondering about this. I don't mind speaking about it through PMs, either. Forums aren't that great for back and forth conversations.
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#3
Hi. You were indeed banned because the two of you were doing some annoying back-and-forth that night. You've been told separately by both Flourish and Virva to knock that off. How often you did or didn't do it is irrelevant. How long you managed to go without re-offending is also irrelevant. People found it annoying and grating and thereby didn't feel like chatting in #spaceman-discussion for lengths of time, which is not acceptable. You were told to stop doing it. Someone noticed you doing it again and commented on it in the backroom. I noticed it and noticed your "admins please ban Nil" on top and that was pretty much that.

Ban's not getting lifted until I'm convinced that letting one or both of you back onto Discord isn't going to result in more of the same. Have a great rest of your week.
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#4
So, to my knowledge, I was only ever warned by Virva, which was the warning I mentioned back in June. Flourish had PM'd me before somewhat regarding it, but it wasn't to do with our interactions in that channel. Otherwise, other than a couple of people getting upset at us for interacting period, I was unaware of it being a bother to anyone. Again, many people have back and forths every day, including me with other people. It has only ever really been a problem when I speak to Nihisohel specifically, which I don't entirely get.

Also as I mentioned, that joke wasn't in reference to our previous warning. Honestly, at the time, that wasn't even a thought in my mind. We hadn't spoken to each other in general in a bit, and were just messing around with a couple of others in the chat. If it had been an issue, I would've gladly knocked it off when warned, but the only sort of backlash was from a couple specific players who generally have a problem with us interacting no matter the context.

To my knowledge, they do not have plans to appeal the ban. I'm not sure how to convince you of it not happening again, since I still don't entirely see the difference between our conversations and most others that occur daily within the server. If being more careful with how I interact with people is what it takes, I don't mind doing that. I do wish there had been some sort of warning aside from the one months ago, highlighting what had been wrong with what we were doing so I knew how to avoid it (as Virva had done with our previous warning, telling us not to cuss each other out, which we hadn't been doing).

Also, I know its sort of been a running joke that we're the same person or whatever, but it's beginning to feel like we are actually being treated as such. It's kind of disheartening, since I try to take into consideration how spam effects others, and try to limit the replies or type of conversation I have with them in the discord. With this ban, it just felt like we got lumped together as one entity, it doesn't feel entirely fair to do so.
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#5
I'm pretty sure I've told you two to knock it off before in #spesscussion. They weren't "official" warnings in that I didn't use Dyno to issue a warning or pull you into a separate channel to talk to you directly, but I've warned you about this before. Nil has also been warned individually.

You and Nil in particular have been an issue because you two have been particularly disruptive and rude when you're "bantering". I'm sure you're aware of the extent of that so I'm not going to list examples. What I will say, though, is that for every instance where we do raise issue about something, there are probably a bunch of other instances that no one saw or slipped under the radar. That doesn't make those any more acceptable.

Besides what Efrem said, I think an important part of why we treat this so seriously is such - when people consistently do this, others will pick up on these bad habits and think it's okay to do the same. Which has definitely happened and is something we really do not want more of.

edit: If you're more comfortable discussing details in DMs, I'm fine with that.
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#6
Genuinely, I don't remember having been warned in the channel about it. The only interactions with admins in that context that I recall were with the jokes about us being the same person, or Urs having said something along the lines of "stop flirting". I understand that that kind of negative back and forth isn't something that would be wanted as an example to others going forward. That said, I myself have been under the impression that the way many of us bicker is fine, earlier that day (I think? Either early that day or the day before) I had even responded to someone in RP chat about how the channel can go through bickering with each other back to getting along fine and discussing something else, saying "we are like a family, families fight sometimes" or something like that. Which, now I see was probably not the right view to take on it.

All I wish from this situation is that I had been given some kind of official warning or talking to before the ban occurred. The chat moves pretty fast, and I do tend to tab out and back in, often missing stuff that goes on within it. The message behind the ban I understand, but its something I would've liked to have been told beforehand, before it spiraled into this. I don't have the type of backroom knowledge that Efrem refers to, so when something like this happens, its something I have no context for or understanding of reason aside from the ban message.

Regardless, I see now where the sentiment comes from, and I believe its something that I can definitely avoid going forward. Thank you two for looking into it.
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#7
Ban lifted per Efrem.
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