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[PR] Removes HoS whitelist requirement from halloween critters + nerfs them
#1
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About the PR
This pr removes HoS whitelist from crow, remy, and bumblespider jobs. In order to prevent abuse of these jobs, these jobs have been nerfed in various ways. Remy can no longer pass through doors (Dont trust a random person to not just walk into armory and grab a gun). Bumblespider has flail and drain removed from it (Flail is a one click 15 second stun, and it also doesnt make sense for a non antag job to have an ability that gibs corpses.) Remy also gets a chef level infinite access implant to compensate for no longer being able to move through every door.


Why's this needed?
The reason for the nerfs is to prevent people from abusing these jobs. HoS whitelist is supposed to be a thing people sign up for to become HoS, not to play as cool not even security related jobs. Having several jobs that are HoS whitelisted for seemingly no reason seems like it runs contradictory to this goal. (also I want to play as bumblespider).


Changelog


Code:
changelog
(u)Ikea
(*)Bumblespider, Crow, and Remy are no longer HoS whitelisted. The Remy job now comes with a chef level access implant.


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#2
I don't have a problem with the nerf, I think the de-whitelisting is a bit backlashy aaaand more importantly:

Goddamn ahelp people who are validhunting as a bumblespider, a HoS/Mentor should be a better player than stomping on people as an adorable spider and ruining it.
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#3
Its important to note this pr wasnt inspired by any specific incidents with HoS/mentor behavior as these jobs (I suggested this in the spooktober suggestions thread the second day of october after I noticed it was whitelisted). The main reason for this pr is simply it makes no sense to withhold these things from non HoS whitelisted people in the first place. These jobs are cool, and honestly some of the most mechanically unique halloween jobs only outclassed by cryptid plush. Withholding majority of players from these features for basically no reason just doesn't seem good. Only reasoning I could think of for it was to limit abuse due to some of the questionable balance of these jobs, but that's just beating around the bush and as we have seen, unfortunately doesn't work.

There is one other reasoning that Ive seen tossed around for it being whitelisted, and that's that these are intended to be special things for HoS people to enjoy, and to that I ask why? While HoS can understandably be stressful, HoS players choose to play HoS and apply for HoS, no one is forcing them to do so. People who play HoS enjoy the job despite the stress. They dont need to be rewarded for playing a job that they enjoy playing.

To add onto that, HoS and NTSO already come with plentiful unique mechanics that are far harder for the rest of the crew to enjoy. The lawbringer is one of if not the most mechanically unique gun, yet if a crew member wishes to play with it, they have to 1. Hope there's a HoS on, which most rounds there isnt, and 2. Proceed to steal/somehow convince/etc it from the HoS, which is far from an easy task to accomplish considering they tend to be robust and heavily armed. If a HoS wants to do the same, they can just boot up the game and select HoS as what they play that round. Similar deal with NTSO gear.

While there can be very good justification in some cases for locking this gear behind the whitelist (see HoS clothing in biodome removal), in the case of these halloween roles that isn't really existent here. There's no reason for HoS to have 3 special roles just for themselves considering they get 2 very special ones all year around. Not to mention the obvious fact of while it may be harder to get in these roles, non whitelisting it doesn't prevent HoS people from enjoying these fun roles. Allowing other players to play these jobs in no way makes these jobs less fun for HoS players either.

In conclusion I just dont think it's good to arbitrarily lock unique features behind a completely unrelated whitelist for basically no reason.
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#4
I'm against these nerfs solely because it's possible to become remy/bumblespider/crows through other means (such as admins or wizard spells).

Don't dampen the overall experience/capabilities of those critters just to make them available for Spooktober. They are rare enough as is outside of this month.
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#5
This just feels like a PR just to take something away from HoS players just because????
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#6
It's not taking it away from HoS players, it is giving it to non-HoS players, because these roles being HoS locked doesn't really make any sense.

As for non-spooktober critters, we can always just make a new variant of the mob without the abilities to use for this PR.

Letting a roundstart role walk through doors in particular doesn't feel sensible to me. Just get an ID, you darn animals!
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#7
This pr takes literally nothing away from HoS players, they are still free to play and enjoy these roles if this pr goes through.
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#8
My tip: Shape up your play and get whitelisted, don't complain about what HoS get given. They get treated badly enough already in game and in discord.
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#9
(10-19-2021, 09:35 PM)Zafhset Wrote: I'm against these nerfs solely because it's possible to become remy/bumblespider/crows through other means (such as admins or wizard spells).

Don't dampen the overall experience/capabilities of those critters just to make them available for Spooktober. They are rare enough as is outside of this month.

This is a pretty fair concern, polymorph can make people into crows and bumblespiders so its understandable not wanting to effect them. Its important to note that my pr description was just wrong, I stated this effected crows not going through doors when in fact it doesnt, they cant go through doors under current behavior. Solved the issue of bumblespider by simply making a variant that only the spooktober job uses.

(10-20-2021, 06:06 AM)Leeanei Wrote: My tip: Shape up your play and get whitelisted, don't complain about what HoS get given. They get treated badly enough already in game and in discord.

I personally have no desire in playing as a HoS nor applying for it at the moment. If i were to apply itd be for the role itself instead of wanting to play as cute bird, and while at the moment i cannot guarantee it, I hope other people apply for HoS to be HoS as well.
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#10
This doesnt take things away from hos? the only reason its whitelisted is cause the critters were abusable, not to give hos players unique things.
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#11
(10-20-2021, 06:08 AM)Ikea Wrote:
(10-20-2021, 06:06 AM)Leeanei Wrote: My tip: Shape up your play and get whitelisted, don't complain about what HoS get given. They get treated badly enough already in game and in discord.

I personally have no desire in playing as a HoS nor applying for it at the moment. If i were to apply itd be for the role itself instead of wanting to play as cute bird, and while at the moment i cannot guarantee it, I hope other people apply for HoS to be HoS as well.

Exactly, I don't play security and I have no desire to play HoS. This has absolutely nothing to do with playing as a critter for spooktober.
People even often say "HoS isn't about being robust, it's about leading your team", like, what should we shape up for? Leading a team of bumblespiders?

Also, who treats HoS players badly on the discord, I have literally never seen anyone treat HoS whitelisted people badly on the discord.
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#12
To be fair while its very unusual for regulars on the discord to treat hos players badly, while unusual sometimes someone after a round will hop into the discord and begin verbally assualting the hos. Sometimes this talking is done through dms, sometimes its done in the open, most often accompanied with telling them to kill themselves and the like, and always a massive overreaction. Fortunately we have active admins and these people tend to get banned pretty quickly.
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#13
While i do agree that there is no reason for these to be HoS limited. I feel like the nerfs and whitelist changes could've been separated into 2 different PR's. They tackle two different issues in my opinion.

I also agree that some of the abilities these critters get are not ok, even if whitelisted, but they are separate from the whitelisting and the 2 discussions should be separated.
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#14
I considered two seperate prs, reason why I didnt go that route is in order to dewhitelist these jobs you need to nerf them. The dewhitelisting is dependent on the nerfs, and i dont want these jobs to get dewhitelisted without them being nerfed. If ultimately this pr gets closed expect me to open a pr with just the nerfs instead.
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#15
(10-20-2021, 09:12 AM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote: Also, who treats HoS players badly on the discord, I have literally never seen anyone treat HoS whitelisted people badly on the discord.

Ikea mean to me all the time
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