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Should Spy Thief's start with an Orion Silenced Pistol?
#1
A forum post in regards to PR #6137. A while back, the discussion came up in the discord about the spy thief, and how they found it a bit sad about how easy it was to take on a spy thief early on. The thought got brought up of increasing the spy's early round potential by giving them some starting gear to help them along and make it easier to take more aggressive bounties, such as the limb ones. Giving the spy a gun was brought up, and I felt the Orion Silenced Pistol would be pretty thematic in this regard. On main, it would help spy thief's be more confidant in taking more aggressive actions, as they would have a gun to back them up. On RP, I could see this being great for RP stuff like threatening people with your gun to give them things. 

Thoughts? Perhaps it's a bit too imbalanced? Maybe another gun or weapon would be more preferable?
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#2
I don't personally like this suggestion as I think it's interesting how spy thief works *without* spies starting with a particularly lethal weapon. Bounties that essentially require murder at the start of the round are particularly hard, and this gives the round a sorta progression where, in theory, the violence/chaos ramps up as spies get better gear suited towards the more difficult bounties. Spies start out stealing minor things, and then as the round progresses they work up the ability to more reliably go for any bounty type.

I'm not against spies having starting items, but I think that spies starting with an exceptionally effective lethal gun runs counter to their design as antags that are meant to 'ramp up'.
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#3
(10-01-2021, 12:36 PM)Flaborized Wrote: I don't personally like this suggestion as I think it's interesting how spy thief works *without* spies starting with a particularly lethal weapon. Bounties that essentially require murder at the start of the round are particularly hard, and this gives the round a sorta progression where, in theory, the violence/chaos ramps up as spies get better gear suited towards the more difficult bounties. Spies start out stealing minor things, and then as the round progresses they work up the ability to more reliably go for any bounty type.

I'm not against spies having starting items, but I think that spies starting with an exceptionally effective lethal gun runs counter to their design as antags that are meant to 'ramp up'.

Any items that you personally think would be good for spies to have as starting items? Perhaps a syndi omnitool to help out with breaking into places?
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#4
(10-01-2021, 12:36 PM)Flaborized Wrote: I don't personally like this suggestion as I think it's interesting how spy thief works *without* spies starting with a particularly lethal weapon. Bounties that essentially require murder at the start of the round are particularly hard, and this gives the round a sorta progression where, in theory, the violence/chaos ramps up as spies get better gear suited towards the more difficult bounties. Spies start out stealing minor things, and then as the round progresses they work up the ability to more reliably go for any bounty type.

I'm not against spies having starting items, but I think that spies starting with an exceptionally effective lethal gun runs counter to their design as antags that are meant to 'ramp up'.

Making spies actually lethal is a good thing. The .22 does identical damage as lawbringer execute or det lethals. Those harder targets are still difficult all things considered, if it’s a sec officer the officer has superior equipment and their body armor is quite robust. If this makes spies more dangerous it makes spy rounds less of a snoozefest.
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#5
(10-01-2021, 01:03 PM)unfunnyperson Wrote:
(10-01-2021, 12:36 PM)Flaborized Wrote: I don't personally like this suggestion as I think it's interesting how spy thief works *without* spies starting with a particularly lethal weapon. Bounties that essentially require murder at the start of the round are particularly hard, and this gives the round a sorta progression where, in theory, the violence/chaos ramps up as spies get better gear suited towards the more difficult bounties. Spies start out stealing minor things, and then as the round progresses they work up the ability to more reliably go for any bounty type.

I'm not against spies having starting items, but I think that spies starting with an exceptionally effective lethal gun runs counter to their design as antags that are meant to 'ramp up'.

Making spies actually lethal is a good thing. The .22 does identical damage as lawbringer execute or det lethals. Those harder targets are still difficult all things considered, if it’s a sec officer the officer has superior equipment and their body armor is quite robust. If this makes spies more dangerous it makes spy rounds less of a snoozefest.
Unless I missed something I think that they should only get one clip or at least no HP cause hollow points can shred you.
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#6
Yes, as it stands right now in the code, you just start with the gun and the full clip inside of it (10 shots). No box to go along with it for extra ammo.
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#7
(10-01-2021, 03:39 PM)Drewmajor11 Wrote:
(10-01-2021, 01:03 PM)unfunnyperson Wrote:
(10-01-2021, 12:36 PM)Flaborized Wrote: -Stuff-

-Other stuff-
Unless I missed something I think that they should only get one clip or at least no HP cause hollow points can shred you.

The Orion does start with HP in it. I'm guessing that's possible to change on spawn, but since it wouldn't be clear that some Orions have HP and some don't to anyone not already aware beforehand, I don't think we should.
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#8
i think this, along with a stealth storage and possibly even an antag card could do WONDERS for spys, someone brought up omnitools, and that could be good, but its a bit extensive at that point
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#9
The orion wouldnt fix much with spy. I say either give it a spes or nothing at all, go big or go home as they say. having lethals roundstart is probably not good unless the antag is designed around that.
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#10
Start with a SPES? Jesus
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#11
Give spies the MPRT, this will surely make things better.
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#12
The silenced pistol is one of the deadliest guns in terms of maximum damage output. No to giving them to spies for free.
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#13
Perhaps a derringer would be more appropriate balance-wise? It's still very strong when it comes to bringing down one person, but you only get two shots to balance that out. Someone also brought up the idea of a taser derringer, which would be interesting.
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#14
What if they got a deagle, maybe one in each hand?
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#15
I genuinely think it would be fine if they started with an Orion but as usual I didn't consider the implications of people just killing their first target asap with their gun instead of being clever.

I wouldn't mind them getting an omnitool though!! Maybe a unique one disguised as the pen in their pda ?
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