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Powergaming & Validhunting
#1
Well, the first moments after getting unbanned from RP weren't pretty, ahelped very, dare i say, "sus" questions on when I can get weapons. I got ayelled at and told never to ahelp this question ever again under the threat of punishment. The thing is, the admin who responded entrusted me to know, DEEP DOWN, what is right and wrong to do about powergaming, and I genuinely don't know how to approach this subject. He was probably pissed about having to read my notes under my request, but it can also be the fact I even brought up the question at all. Im kinda afraid admins involved with this in the past will ban me again for bringing this up, but i AM truelly lost on what to do. I'll try to not be an asshole when i talk about my RP powergaming again, but my thought on whats wrong and right is probably really far off according to admin standards. Can someone run me over the semantics of ALL of it, it can just be, "dont gear up ever and let sec do thier job", or "certian (BLANK)gear is allowed under certian(BLANK) situations".

AFTER thinking about it, I think the admin who ayelled me was also pissed about me possibly using his answers to validhunt using weapons in any way possible and thus nullifying the spirit of the powergaming clause.............. but I kinda just wanna know if I can make myself look cooler with sunglasses in maint, along with a flash once in a while.
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#2
If you need to say something about an Admin, Admin feedback form is where you can do so safely, in less you brake something like rule 4 you will not be banned for talking there.
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#3
(07-24-2021, 07:01 PM)Mrprogamer96 Wrote: If you need to say something about an Admin, Admin feedback form is where you can do so safely, in less you brake something like rule 4 you will not be banned for talking there.

I don't have any complaints about what the admin did, this thread is generally more focused what is acceptable "gearing up".
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#4
Normally I'd tell you that its a question of if it really, truly makes sense for your character to even have these weapons, or if that character had any valid motivation to justify hunting the antags.  Hint:  On RP, the answers are 'rarely' and 'even MORE rare', respectively.

But even as a non-admin, I've seen from your messages on the forums, behavior in game, and other conjecture that you have a huge history of this kind of behavior, so I think we need to ask another question:  Are you truly RPing, or are you simply trying to fish for an excuse to powergame and validhunt, while (poorly) attempting to pass it off as RP in the hopes that it covers your ass?

Honestly, the answer to most of your questions are common sense, normally, and you likely know the answer 'deep down' already.  Your not asking to get the answer, but to find some technical, legal wording in the rules (or interpretations thereof from the admins themselves) that will let you pull a 'Well, ACKSHUALLY' when you next get in trouble in the hopes that your rules-lawyering will excuse you.

In other words, I think the issue is, your not just trying to powergame the game, your trying to powergame the rules themselves.  And its not fooling anyone.
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#5
Asking for a list of what's okay and what's not okay is kind of missing the point. It very much reads as trying to get a quote for "an admin said I am allowed to get this piece of equipment" to use as justification for grabbing that piece of equipment every round, regardless of your role, e.g. if an admin said "flashes are okay" then having one of those in your pocket most of the time, whether you're a department head, staff assistant, roboticist, engineer...

The vast majority of RP players do not have problems with powergaming. RP is not about winning, it is about the story, the journey, the "friends you make along the way". It is okay to lose and to die. In the vast majority of cases, death is barely even a delay. A lot of the time, you'll be cloned very quickly. A bunch more of the time someone will find your body soon enough and bring it in (maybe even the person who killed you).

To put it another way: antagonists are supposed to have an advantage against an individual crewmember. An antagonist on the RP server should be able to interact with crew in an antagonistic way that, as a player, you may identify as them being an antagonist for, but that doesn't give you leeway to pull out your "whitelisted" piece of equipment and dunk on them with it.

The best form of self-defense, 95% of the time, is to run away. Run somewhere public, run screaming, run towards security or some area of the station that you know is probably staffed. The remaining 5% is still situational, and even then most of the time you probably shouldn't have weapons outside of the tools of your job. Breaking this and being better equipped for no reason means that an arms race develops, where antagonists have to come at crew more lethally if they don't want to lose and die themselves.

Sure, if there have been announcements of some weird activity aboard, bodies found, etc. then you might want to take more precautions. The best precautions are simply not going anywhere alone, or going for a tour of maintenance for no reason. Stick to well lit hallways, stick in groups, enjoy the fearmongering and rumors being spread. Heck, if you as a player know who the antagonist is, buddy up with them for "safety"; the in-character betrayal is all the sweeter.

So yes, I would say for you, personally, a good rule of thumb is "don't have any equipment your job wouldn't normally have". And no, "all of the loot in the adventure zones" is not what scientists normally have, nor do (RP) scientists walk around with beakers of deadly chems ready to use or whatever. Play to play, not to win. There are so many opportunities to be had from losing that by powergaming at all you're really missing out on a good chunk of the RP experience (and denying it to others).
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#6
(07-24-2021, 07:19 PM)Ion Mage Wrote: Normally I'd tell you that its a question of if it really, truly makes sense for your character to even have these weapons, or if that character had any valid motivation to justify hunting the antags.  Hint:  On RP, the answers are 'rarely' and 'even MORE rare', respectively.

But even as a non-admin, I've seen from your messages on the forums, behavior in game, and other conjecture that you have a huge history of this kind of behavior, so I think we need to ask another question:  Are you truly RPing, or are you simply trying to fish for an excuse to powergame and validhunt, while (poorly) attempting to pass it off as RP in the hopes that it covers your ass?

Honestly, the answer to most of your questions are common sense, normally, and you likely know the answer 'deep down' already.  Your not asking to get the answer, but to find some technical, legal wording in the rules (or interpretations thereof from the admins themselves) that will let you pull a 'Well, ACKSHUALLY' when you next get in trouble in the hopes that your rules-lawyering will excuse you.

In other words, I think the issue is, your not just trying to powergame the game, your trying to powergame the rules themselves.  And its not fooling anyone.
......Your right, the entire reason I was attracted to RP was only because of the longer running time and less dangerous nature of the servers. RP was the perfect place to horde weapons on, which I took a liking to doing. I did use souricelles interpretation to powergame during my last RP round. My lackluster and blatant attempts to keep up my "playstyle" has been such a shitfest that i dont think people would trust me finding a crowbar in maints ........ANYWAY, what do ya mean when ya said if it would make sense for my char to have or for me to use against an antag? It should be reasonable to "scavenge around" and find some "neat" things dont ya think? I am the chef! I am the chef!

OH, mordent responded........I really wanted a flash god darn it, what are your thoughts on sunglasses. Make sure to frame it as "sunglasses are/aren't ok" for reasons. Anyway, I read the entire thing, Ill take it to heart.
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#7
Sunglasses are pieces of eyeware that people wear for a variety of reasons, because their environment is too bright, they're gonna be driving during the day, to look cool.  It makes less sense in a work environment, but I don't see why people would care bout some Randy wearing them

DO NOT use this as an excuse to steal sunglasses every single round.  Your job, whatever it is, should come first, not your fashion sense.
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#8
(07-24-2021, 08:19 PM)Aligote Wrote: ANYWAY, what do ya mean when ya said if it would make sense for my char to have or for me to use against an antag? It should be reasonable to "scavenge around" and find some "neat" things dont ya think? I am the chef! I am the chef!

See, this is precisely what I mean about how your just fishing for excuses.  This is the behavior that is getting you into trouble.  Stop it.
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#9
just wear the pool sunglasses? they dont protect your eyes but they're for fashion
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#10
(07-25-2021, 07:20 AM)Cal Wrote: just wear the pool sunglasses? they dont protect your eyes but they're for fashion

Aren't the pool ones like the only ones and they have 40% eye protection?
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#11
(07-25-2021, 09:39 AM)Drewmajor11 Wrote:
(07-25-2021, 07:20 AM)Cal Wrote: just wear the pool sunglasses? they dont protect your eyes but they're for fashion

Aren't the pool ones like the only ones and they have 40% eye protection?

There are authentic sunglasses either called "sunglasses" or "dirty sunglasses", that give 100% eye protection like sec huds. Ya know the difference because they don't say, "only for tanning" in the description and spawn in more obscure locations other than the pool.
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#12
(07-25-2021, 10:40 AM)Aligote Wrote:
(07-25-2021, 09:39 AM)Drewmajor11 Wrote:
(07-25-2021, 07:20 AM)Cal Wrote: just wear the pool sunglasses? they dont protect your eyes but they're for fashion

Aren't the pool ones like the only ones and they have 40% eye protection?

There are authentic sunglasses either called "sunglasses" or "dirty sunglasses", that give 100% eye protection like sec huds. Ya know the difference because they don't say, "only for tanning" in the description and spawn in more obscure locations other than the pool.

i think again you might be missing the point, your worried about the stats of the glasses and everyone is telling you to not worry about it and enjoy the RP.
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#13
I just wanted drewmajor to know better sunglasses are out there, I think he thought the shitty pool sunglasses were the only ones that existed.
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#14
I have a feeling he knows already.

Don't worry too much about it Ali.
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#15
You're definitely just fishing for a quote you can try to hold up as a defense when you inevitably go back to your habitual line-stepping. Knock it off.
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