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[MERGED PR] Disarm nerfs the sequel
#1
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PULL REQUEST DETAILS




About the PR
Instead of dramatically changing the mechanics of disarm (#5309), which seemed to be poorly received, lets see if mainly numbers tweaks are taken better:
* disarm stam cost 10 -> 30
* disarm stam damage 20 -> 10
* Disarm chance scaled down to 50% of current (18.5%) at targets with 200 or more stamina, and linerally scaled to current value (37%) on targets with 100 or less. Disarm chances on blocks is reduced by 80% (multiplicative)
* Disarm targets all held items at once


Why's this needed?
Stam costs: Make disarm less spammable as a main action in a brawl

Disarm stamina scaling: Make disarm less useful in a first-strike scenario, as well as less useful against ranged weapons (which typically do not use stamina) - numbers here might want poking

Arm targeting -> hand targeting:
* No other mechanic in this game, afaik, cares about what active hand slot someone *else* is using at any given time,
* Additionally, there is no feedback that a player has swapped hands or indication of which hand a player has as their active hand at any given time (until they attack/you attempt a disarm)

Together, this makes for a feature that is unintuitive and nigh-impossible to play around, as suddenly your disarm attacks stop working with exactly zero indication that anything in the situation has changed. Letting players target a specific hand for disarms will help alleviate that element, while still leaving inventory management as a way to reduce chance of weapon loss (pocket, bag, move *weapon* to other hand [which would trigger a change in the inhand sprite for the item as well as changing examine text, giving some feedback as to why disarms stop working])

Changelog


Code:
changelog
(u)Tarmunora
(*)Disarm changes. See minor changes for details. To be reverted by Sat, July 3 for further review
(+)disarm stam cost 10 -> 30
(+)disarm stam damage 20 -> 10
(+)Disarm chance scaled down to 50% of current (18.5%) at targets with 200 or more stamina, and linerally scaled to current value (37%) on targets with 100 or less. Disarm chances on blocks is reduced by 80% (multiplicative)
(+)Disarm targets all held items at once


PULL REQUEST DETAILS
#2
I love all of these changes, being able to aim for the object I want to knock out of the target's hand is a fantastic idea. I also love stamina having a larger impact in combat. All in all this seems like a pretty good change to me.
#3
This seems much better. I can't speak for the numbers because im not a numbers nerd, but the hand targeting seems like a very good change. I didn't even know the other person's active hand mattered until urs specifically mentioned it in the last thread and I felt weird about that being a feature since.
#4
Costing more stamina than dealing seems a tad odd to me - if I want to persistently disarm a person, my chances should slowly increase instead of denying me the option at some point. This feels like disarming would be a bit useless, instead grab an air tank and repeatedly bash the person until horizontal, you'll need to or you'll put yourself in a disadvantageous situation.
#5
these all seem fine to me
#6
What will the chance of disarming a nukie at 200/100 be now?
Similarly for stimulants?

Still concerned about the chance for the knockdown shove. It's low but it's extremely effective and just feels like RNG deciding to doom you, particularly with it being another chance roll independent of the disarm.
#7
Sounds pretty good to me! I'll have to learn to start aiming for the arm with the gun...
#8
As I said on git I will say here I'm not a fan of arm targeting. I really don't think anyone considered how quickly you will need to react to switch arms as well as the possible confusion depending on which angle they are facing. I also think gere is the only one who switches their active hand during c saber slaughters which this nerf(?) is actively targeted.
#9
yea i dont think targetting arms should be how you disarm. Its difficult to tell what arm someones holding something in unless youve been playing a lot. Even then, the default hotkeys to change arms are 7, and 8, which are very far away from WASD. Yea, you can rebind them, but again, thats not very new player friendly. I think the other changes could work, though, id be willing to test those out in the live servers
#10
thinking about it a bit more. arm targeting seems very difficult for the average person to pull off in a fight, and newer players usually don't even think to do basic targeting.like pressing 5 to target the head for more damage.
#11
arm targeting seems wonky. i would never actrually do this in a fight and if my foe swaps hands i'd still be at a disadvantage because I did not notice them do it, because there is no way to notice this save a thing in chat being added that says like "X swaps the Spes-12 to their right hand!"
#12
My knee jerk response is that hand swapping being public information would be a large nerf (for secretive antags) and spammy. But maybe I'm just afraid of how people will judge me for poor inventory management...

I think feedback when you are targeting an empty hand and/or it reverting to targeting thier active hand if the targeted hand is empty could help with the skill floor. From a tactical point being able to remove an offhand item seems valuable. But folks do be raising some solid concerns.
#13
repeating some conversation from discord,

I think the hand-swapping-to-avoid-disarm mechanic should be removed. instead, make it rely on whether the targeted player is blocking
Blocking already reduces disarm chance a fair bit but its not perfect, and as a replacement for handswaps it could be improved to be even more consistent

benefits : has a visual tell for other players to see, fits blocking as a 'grip item more tightly' command, and we don't have to worry about limb targeting stuff or hidden information here at all! The defender gets a slight slow while blocking but in exchange they can seamlessly transition from blocking to attacking (since a block can be cancelled into an attack)

you might consider this a downside but it would mean disarms have to target both hands at once instead of choosing one or the other. shovedowns already do this though so its probably fine, i mo
#14
I'm okay with the blocking idea and okay with it targeting both hands. the real nerds will still have our inventory management tricks, but it'll all be stuff that has visual tells
#15
Seems alright but then I realize that a stimmed up syndie with a sword will absolutely destroy the entire stations crew.


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