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Crit System
#1
The crit system as of now has multiple issues, people will survive a lot and keep going, this can lead to fights being extremely prolonged and people being able to pull off stuff they shouldn't be able to. Some people with good rolls can keep fighting even at like -400 or lower, while I don't think we want TG crit I think we need to make it so crit actually means something more, in boxing ring fights I've beaten someone down to crazy numbers like -800 while they still manage to beat me into soft crit sheerly through getting up again and again. Some things suggested when we were talking about this in discord was making certain actions take more stamina while in crit so if you choose to take a risky action they'll be able to beat you back down unless you get very lucky or are very skilled. Other things I've said and thought of include, making it harder to disarm while in crit, making it so at certain thresholds you will 100% get effects instead of the RNG system we have now and make it so people without blood actually.... die. Another suggestion people said was making it so you have to crawl after a certain point in crit. One thing Souricelle said was making it harder to get into crit but make it actually mean more which I think is the system we should aim for.

This is just some ideas I could remember from last night, feel free to add more ideas.

(Also, a bit unrelated but I think we should add some form of stun resist for types of armor and nuclear operative armor, this is something I can look into the code for later but I'm stupid and this probably should be another thread.
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#2
Most surviving crit issues can be dealt with by chucking the constantly passing out person into maintenance or space and letting time deal with it.

Weld the damn door if ya have to. Come back later to clean up, and there ya go.
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#3
Add the Dark Heresy crit system

[Image: iOL5Vzg.jpeg]
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#4
I had the idea last night when this discussion started so i'll put it in here. Folks didn't like being stuck prone and now that I think about it neither would I, so here it goes.

Stamina, its all about stamina. When you hit a certain point in crit (-50%?) you hit Cardiac failure and cardiac arrest. Both momentarily stun you and crit itself slows you down. Sadly, neither of these effects stop the zombie like gameplay that the game currently has. Someone starts to kill you, you stand your ground and just yellow hand the fuck out of them. Doesn't matter how deep into crit you are, cardiac failure and arrest haven't started yet, so you're A+ good to go till they do. You're a zombie.

This got me thinking. When infected by the necrovirus, your stamina goes into the dumpster at 5 regen instead of 10, so why not do this to our living zombies?

When you hit crit, and cardiac failure starts kicking in, you get an exhaustion debuff. Being generous i'd say cut stamina regen by 50%, being serious, i'd say cut it by 70%.

If you have less stamina regen, you can't recover from attacks as well, since they drain your stamina, you can't fight back as well, since your own attacks drain your stamina. You have to make a decision. Do you use your remaining stamina before exhaustion kicks in to try to fight back, or run away? Once you ARE in exhaustion, if you DID get away, you're slowed by crit, but you're ALIVE and able to slowly limp to medbay. This largely doesn't change gameplay too much, but it might stop the zombie style gameplay on Nuke Ops where you unload on someone and they just keep zombie marching towards you yellow handing the hell out of you.

Unrelated idea.... Make bashing objects cost stamina. Last time I was bashing the nuke or a window it didn't cost any stamina. If we had stamina costs for these, even bashing the nuke with depleted stamina is a decision you have to make with stamina regen being cut down in crit.
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#5
If I understand the code correctly, here is how crit currently works:

0 to -50: you are weakened and go into shock and take .25 oxy damage per second
-50 to -79: You get stuns, start to get heart failure, start taking 1 oxy per second, this remains constant for the rest of crit
-80 to -99: Much more likely to get heart failure and go prone
-100 and under: your heart will quickly flatline unless you're defibbed. This also appears to be where you start getting the rolling prone stuns that knock you out?

From here dying happens either instantly at certain thresholds or gets triggered by an RNG roll if those thresholds are not met.
The thresholds are:
>=120 brain damage (insta ded)
<=-500 "Death health" which is equal to Current health + 0.5 oxy -.67 brute dam -.67 burn dam. This means that brute/burn contribute waaay more to insta-dead than oxy damage does, it would take 1200 oxy damage to instakill someone but only 360 brute.

The RNG roll is calculated as (BRAIN*-5 + HEALTH (remember this can be negative) + OXY/2) *-.01, which means that per second(? Someone fact check me on this) the death roll tends to be anywhere between a 1% chance (at exactly -100 health and 0 BRAIN) and an 11% chance (if you are near -500 health/120 BRAIN). If the person in crit does not have much brain damage that easily cuts the roll's odds by more than half of what it could be.

I'm not sure what my own opinion on the system is exactly but I figured a more technical look might be helpful. The thing that is unclear to me is exactly when/how the player goes from falling over/standing up zombie style to just being prone until they die.
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#6
(06-25-2021, 09:51 PM)phyvo Wrote: If I understand the code correctly, here is how crit currently works:

0 to -50: you are weakened and go into shock and take .25 oxy damage per second
-50 to -79: You get stuns, start to get heart failure, start taking 1 oxy per second, this remains constant for the rest of crit
-80 to -99: Much more likely to get heart failure and go prone
-100 and under: your heart will quickly flatline unless you're defibbed. This also appears to be where you start getting the rolling prone stuns that knock you out?

From here dying happens either instantly at certain thresholds or gets triggered by an RNG roll if those thresholds are not met.
The thresholds are:
>=120 brain damage (insta ded)
<=-500 "Death health" which is equal to Current health + 0.5 oxy -.67 brute dam -.67 burn dam. This means that brute/burn contribute waaay more to insta-dead than oxy damage does, it would take 1100 oxy damage to instakill someone but only 360 brute.

The RNG roll is calculated as (BRAIN*-5 + HEALTH (remember this can be negative) + OXY/2) *-.01, which means that per second(? Someone fact check me on this) the death roll tends to be anywhere between a 1% chance (at exactly -100 health and 0 BRAIN) and an 11% chance (if you are near -500 health/120 BRAIN). If the person in crit does not have much brain damage that easily cuts the roll's odds by more than half of what it could be.

I'm not sure what my own opinion on the system is exactly but I figured a more technical look might be helpful. The thing that is unclear to me is exactly when/how the player goes from falling over/standing up zombie style to just being prone until they die.
Brain dead isn't instant dead by the way, also you can still fight until like -300 pretty easily. It works like that because a lot of it is based on RNG and death rolls.

What I mean is it theoretically should insta kill and do like you said at those thresholds but it doesn't seem to be consistent.
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#7
Brain Dead and Brain damage are two different things.

Once your take enough brain damage, you die. There is no alternative.
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#8
Yeah, 120 brain damage and you're dead. I think 100 brain damage and you fall over and just can't wake up until you get mannitol or Synaptazine.

I was also unaware it was 500 combined damage instant killed, I thought it was 400 combined damage. The big thing I thing that this thread should discuss is the zombie like behavior and where it happens at.
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#9
Yeah brain damage is the reason why the staff of cthulu was so strong with old TK. Staff of Cthulu did braindamage and old TK you could just smack people with it from hiding.
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#10
TBH I think the one thing crit needs is just more consistent rolls. It's bullshit that sometimes you'll get a 30 second knockout for being at -20 health, and others you can keep fighting until RNjesus pulls the rug out from under you at -250
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#11
(06-27-2021, 11:26 AM)NightmarechaMillian Wrote: TBH I think the one thing crit needs is just more consistent rolls. It's bullshit that sometimes you'll get a 30 second knockout for being at -20 health, and others you can keep fighting until RNjesus pulls the rug out from under you at -250

Yeah, thats the zombie like gameplay that i've been talking about. You're absolutely dead, its just the lifeloop hasn't ticked over properly and its still letting you stand up and be alive. You should have started passing out at -50.
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#12
On Discord, we briefly spitballed that any strenuous activity could advance your Shock or Cardiac Failure by 1, or trigger Cardiac Arrest once both are at the last stage. Maybe raise both to 5 stages to compensate, so you could at least walk somewhere and self-heal.
Strenuous activity being anything from attempting to hit/shove/grab someone, being hit and receiving damage (!), sprinting and similar stuff. This'll mean that once you hit even shallow crit, you'll very rapidly go into Cardiac Arrest if you just keep fighting.

Alternatively, going into Shock could reduce Stamina Regeneration by 70%. To give you a chance, you could have a 10 (?) second buff called "Adrenaline Surge" or similar, that indicates you'll still have normal Stamina Regeneration for a few seconds. Once the buff runs out, the Shock debuff hits. This would allow you to stay and fight for a forseeable amount of time, or give you the indicator that you should probably run away now.
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#13
I am simultaneously intrigued and also a bit worried about the topic you are all talking about, it is interesting but potentially game changing if it was put into effect
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