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Mutantraces Law Rework
#31
(06-13-2021, 10:51 AM)Ikea Wrote: Quick two rules question, lets say a borg sees a lizard order a surplus crate, this is confirmation that the lizard is a traitor, traitors arent protected under grief rules, is the borg allowed to kill the traitor lizard, it doesnt violate there laws as lizards arent human, nor are antags protected under grief rules. Second question, lets say an antag captain doesnt want to rogue ai and notices one of there assasination targets is not human, so they order the ai to kill that target, iis the ai protected under the rules if they follow the order, will they be punished if they refuse to follow the order, is the captain violating server rules here? Afterall theyre just fulfilling there objectives

Lets see a borg sees a human do something changeling like, this is confirmation that they are changeling and not protected under grief rules. Is the borg allowed to kill the changeling? It doesn't violate the rules as changelings are not human nor are antags protected under grief rules.
See it doesn't really change anything does it?
As for your second example I haven't really seen this happen before. Only example I would think of is the captain telling the AI/borgs to kill a player character monkey.
I think the AI would be protected if the captain tells them to but I don't think the AI is required to harm them. That would make it a great opportunity for the AI/borgs to do some roleplay on if they should follow the captains orders on killing a nonhuman or not. The only way the AI would really be able to kill the nonhuman is if they start bolting them in, shocking the doors, or trying to shoot them with the AI upload lasers. If a borg was going around trying to kill some random player character I think the crew would think the AI is rogue and that would bring them to asking why the AI is doing this and then the AI would tell them the captain ordered it and the captain would be outed. Sounds like a good round to me.
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#32
the "human" page on the wiki, the one linked to by the "ai laws" page on the wiki, should just have the various mutantraces moved from the "nonhuman" section to the "human" section.
this would solve basically all mutantrace law problems without having to change the ai laws at all
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#33
The funny thing is that the admin team has been mulling on this topic for quite some time now. Towards the end of last year, we had a fairly big discussion about it, which sort of tapered off with the resolution to chew on it some more. More recently, we've been deliberating about where we want to take mutant races in general, from many different perspectives, including art direction, gameplay mechanics, policy, things like that.

But anyways, we've recently voted to rule lizards, cows, roachpeople, player skeletons, and squids (but not player monkeys) as human under silicon laws. For now, the Human page has been changed to reflect this, rather than rewording AI laws as this thread's original post suggests. Will there be further developments? It is certainly within the realm of possibility. At the same time, there might not be. It'll take some more time to contemplate any additional possible approaches, consider their benefits, drawbacks, possible ramifications for the future, etc. I'm not gonna say if other things will change or not, but we are looking into this matter.
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#34
This is the resolution I was hoping for. smile
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#35
(06-16-2021, 09:28 PM)Studenterhue Wrote: The funny thing is that the admin team has been mulling on this topic for quite some time now. Towards the end of last year, we had a fairly big discussion about it, which sort of tapered off with the resolution to chew on it some more. More recently, we've been deliberating about where we want to take mutant races in general, from many different perspectives, including art direction, gameplay mechanics, policy, things like that.

I knew this was an ongoing thing, I just kind of wanted to give it a little nudge, since it seemed to be a really common point of discussion (discord, forums, OOC), without actually seeing any resolution. 

Anyways, I like the changes! Good to see us lizardfolk no longer have to live in fear :D
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#36
(06-16-2021, 09:28 PM)Studenterhue Wrote: The funny thing is that the admin team has been mulling on this topic for quite some time now. Towards the end of last year, we had a fairly big discussion about it, which sort of tapered off with the resolution to chew on it some more. More recently, we've been deliberating about where we want to take mutant races in general, from many different perspectives, including art direction, gameplay mechanics, policy, things like that.

But anyways, we've recently voted to rule lizards, cows, roachpeople, player skeletons, and squids (but not player monkeys) as human under silicon laws. For now, the Human page has been changed to reflect this, rather than rewording AI laws as this thread's original post suggests. Will there be further developments? It is certainly within the realm of possibility. At the same time, there might not be. It'll take some more time to contemplate any additional possible approaches, consider their benefits, drawbacks, possible ramifications for the future, etc. I'm not gonna say if other things will change or not, but we are looking into this matter.



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#37
(06-16-2021, 09:28 PM)Studenterhue Wrote: The funny thing is that the admin team has been mulling on this topic for quite some time now. Towards the end of last year, we had a fairly big discussion about it, which sort of tapered off with the resolution to chew on it some more. More recently, we've been deliberating about where we want to take mutant races in general, from many different perspectives, including art direction, gameplay mechanics, policy, things like that.

But anyways, we've recently voted to rule lizards, cows, roachpeople, player skeletons, and squids (but not player monkeys) as human under silicon laws. For now, the Human page has been changed to reflect this, rather than rewording AI laws as this thread's original post suggests. Will there be further developments? It is certainly within the realm of possibility. At the same time, there might not be. It'll take some more time to contemplate any additional possible approaches, consider their benefits, drawbacks, possible ramifications for the future, etc. I'm not gonna say if other things will change or not, but we are looking into this matter.

I want to specify the vote started BEFORE this thread was created. Specifically this thread was created almost exactly one whole day after we started the vote. I personally found the timing to be a little bit funny. It is sort of a coincidence, but even though it's not "player started discussion thread, and this prompted admins to vote about it", it's not like the admin team was completely unaware of this thread either, and I'm sure it influenced at least some people, players and admins. Whatever the narrative though, I say it still shows we do indeed notice (or at least try to notice) the things going on in the community and, even if we're not directly acting on players' threads or doing it through public channels, we do try to fix them if they're problematic.

(That's not to say these threads aren't helpful; we do miss some things sometimes, similar with adminhelps)
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#38
Ehh. I still don't like it. Whats the point in being a mutant race if you are just going to be treated as a reskinned human?
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#39
They literally play differently. Cows cannot wear shoes for instance
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#40
They can PLAY differently but I meant how they are TREATED. Before the change the AI and Borgs could see them as the same as player monkeys. Now they are the same as any other crew member.
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#41
Cool and good
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#42
Dunno. Sounds boring to me.
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#43
AI players already have a hard time actually listening to people when they need help, I don't know how good I would feel if the AI can straight up ignore someone begging for help.

And let's not get started on "well I can kill them cause they're not human" bullshit that will crop up.
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#44
If you have a hankering for being killed for no reason and ignored by the AI, nothuman yourself. At least that provides clarity to the silicon players.
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