Efrem, Discord, publically making fun of people for being wrong in AdminHelps

[Carbadox]

I don't think the above comments are alright or justifiable. They're both directly said to make fun of people who use AdminHelp and were incorrect. I dont see anything meaningful from this, other than making other people think that it's bad to AdminHelp when you're not sure because there's a chance you're wrong and you'll get mocked for it, publically in this case.

Some times people act unreasonably when they're upset but I don't see that to be a reason to mock them, even if you're just vaguelly talking about some people. There's been times when people were clearly venting in MentorHelps and acting really abhrasively but it wouldn't justify Mentors talking and joking about the in public channels. I'd imagine that if that were the case, there'd be a stern wording from an admin about it.   


Further below, the conversation changed but Connie pointed out the issues with what happened. Further on Efrem justifies this by saying



This hardly makes the situation right. If this was a big enough issue to bring it up, then why publically and not in a direct and private manner. This could have been sorted out either in AdminHelp or in the appropriate channels that I know the Admins have at their disposal.

All in all, I think this could have been handled way better than it.

[warcrimes]

I'm gonna give you my (personal, individual) read of the situation and how I believe it relates to the norm, and what's like, chill and cool to do i guess.

That first example is immaterial to me, it's got no identifying information.
Admins talk about what their favorite A-Helps are all the time. We actually do love getting A-Helps that turn out to be really easy to solve or dimsiss.
It's fun to be a part of. That's genuine. SS13 is literally a game about misdirection, lying, and information asymmetry- We like to see it in action.

The second one (about the vamps) is also perfectly fine to me?
In this situation there was clearly a preexisting communication between the player and efrem, efrem dispelled their mistake (which is not being called into question- there's no implication here that a-helping was a mistake or is being ridiculed). The player seems to be conveying complaint in public discord that contradicts what they were told by the admin, the admin is responding by stripping their credibility.
That's kind of how competing claims work.

Your analogy to how mentors are meant to treat the information in Mhelps is relevant, but not all-encompassing.
Admins (generally, sorta) have the additional prerogative to share whatever sensitive information they see fit *so long as that information doesn't impact other admins* - we do this with sanitised logs, and in fact, while responding to APMs regularly.

Sharing the equivalent of "You know that's not true because *we had a conversation (A-helps) about this not long ago*" is not outside that scope in my opinion.
If players want to vent at/about each other, they ought to at least not be deliberately misinformed.
I'm really not seeing anything out of the ordinary or particularly harmful from Efrem here.

[CaptainBravo]

In this situation there was clearly a preexisting communication between the player and efrem, efrem dispelled their mistake (which is not being called into question- there's no implication here that a-helping was a mistake or is being ridiculed). The player seems to be conveying complaint in public discord that contradicts what they were told by the admin, the admin is responding by stripping their credibility.
That's kind of how competing claims work.

Your analogy to how mentors are meant to treat the information in Mhelps is relevant, but not all-encompassing.
Admins (generally, sorta) have the additional prerogative to share whatever sensitive information they see fit *so long as that information doesn't impact other admins* - we do this with sanitised logs, and in fact, while responding to APMs regularly.

Sharing the equivalent of "You know that's not true because *we had a conversation (A-helps) about this not long ago*" is not outside that scope in my opinion.
If players want to vent at/about each other, they ought to at least not be deliberately misinformed.
I'm really not seeing anything out of the ordinary or particularly harmful from Efrem here.

Setting this straight: There was no ahelp conversation. I don't like feeding players information about the round in ahelps because I don't like checking whether they're alive or dead-but-coming-back or whatever the case may be, and because this game isn't about getting closure that everything that happened in a round was kosher.

I simply saw that nothing was out of the ordinary and chose not to say anything. I still feel this was right because if I can't trust someone not to fume and slander someone in every available channel then I definitely don't trust them to know behind-the-scenes things like "oh yeah no that guy was an antag".

That said, the lack of being told that you're wrong in an ahelp is never a reason to come onto Discord and start blasting salt about whatever someone else did in-game. If you try to mom and dad your hurt feelings and drag them into spaces where another player might not even be around to defend what they did or set it straight, I'm blastin back. Not sorry.

[warcrimes]

Alright well even without the PM conversation I think i can still live with this

[rando212]

Hi I was the player in the second conversation (rando212) and i would agree with efrem here i was a bit salty that round as there was a sci or someone who released vamp serum to the station and as sec all i saw were seemingly non antag vamps attacking people because they got vamped up. As well as a lot of other people talking about the vamps being serum vamps and not supposed to be antaging at the time i didn't realize the round was spys as no one called it out and o i didnt realise there was a massive amount of antags. So i ahelped and after round complained about all the vamps as I was really tired after that round. Would it have been nice for efrem to do talk to me in dm's or something sure but i do see why he didnt.