Thread Rating:
  • 3 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pathology Feedback
#16
one big thing i feel path needs is more console right now on overflow we can have like 3-4 people in path all trying to do shit but its hard when the manipulator is a big part and there only 1 of them i definitely feel 1-2 more consoles and manipulators should be added.
Reply
#17
After messing with pathogens for several rounds, even researching out a Tier 5 symptom (death explosion), I have a few thoughts.

First of all, After about 10 minutes, on main, hallways are FULL of fartcloud disease smoke, and the disease liquid makes you slip everywhere. Another thing, the cloud blocks interaction with tiles, so it makes it so you cant use mechcomp for example, in many areas where you used to be able. I feel like the fart cloud needs to be changed or removed. It just makes the game feel.. gross. Many players on main have expressed hatred towards it. 

However, I do love the researching mechanic. You have to take time and try to figure out by mixing viruses, what goes where to make higher tier symptoms. it took me 60 minutes to find the tier 5 symptom when I did, and that's the only one i've found. It has a good pace to it. Good job!
Reply
#18
(01-13-2021, 07:35 PM)Leeanei Wrote: special note: Flourish did disable hygiene pathogens after posting that.

Right now I think my good feedback is going to have to wait until things slow down and we don't see massive pathogen campaigns out of novelty. Primary concern is for RP we probably need more beneficial symptoms than not. RP pathologists also have a solid 90 minutes to do all their research so they have massive advantages over their Main counterparts in that area.

The intention is for that to not matter *too* much, since only a limited amount of symptoms go on a pathogen, and the need to rp should also slow them down.
From what I've seen right now, lots of people are not really rping as much as they should right now, hopefully it will clear up a bit once patho is less new.

As for hygiene pathogens, I am making the patch now, sorry it took so long, but I had to sleep.^^

(01-13-2021, 09:33 PM)rando212 Wrote: one big thing i feel path needs is more console right now on overflow we can have like 3-4 people in path all trying to do shit but its hard when the manipulator is a big part and there only 1 of them i definitely feel 1-2 more consoles and manipulators should be added.

Usually there should only be 1 or a maximum of 2 people doing pathology at a time. Hopefully things will be less cramped after the novelty wears off.
I have plans to possibly add a dedicated pathologist job soon, so there will actually be a person responsible.

(01-13-2021, 11:17 PM)Froggit_Dogget Wrote: After messing with pathogens for several rounds, even researching out a Tier 5 symptom (death explosion), I have a few thoughts.

First of all, After about 10 minutes, on main, hallways are FULL of fartcloud disease smoke, and the disease liquid makes you slip everywhere. Another thing, the cloud blocks interaction with tiles, so it makes it so you cant use mechcomp for example, in many areas where you used to be able. I feel like the fart cloud needs to be changed or removed. It just makes the game feel.. gross. Many players on main have expressed hatred towards it. 

However, I do love the researching mechanic. You have to take time and try to figure out by mixing viruses, what goes where to make higher tier symptoms. it took me 60 minutes to find the tier 5 symptom when I did, and that's the only one i've found. It has a good pace to it. Good job!

Yeah, the spread via clouds is working a lot more efficiently than I had anticipated, due to the servers having such a ludicrous amount of players, none of which are really taking care to avoid them.
Personally, I am not very attached to the visuals either, but what do you think could replace them for airborne spread, in a way that is still clearly visible?
Reply
#19
New changes on the way: https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/3325

The next step will probably be adding a Pathologist role. (Fixing any issues that get pointed out to me during that.)
Reply
#20
i wanted to add some thoughts and echo some sentiment that i think Ley worded really well earlier yesterday after the first few patho-enabled rounds on RP--knowing in advance that this is still the testing phase and there's still a lot of player behavior around pathology to see and interact with. Ley pointed out that for antagonist doctors/scientists on the RP server, if they utilize patho to create their deadly Evil Supervirus, it kind of violates escalation expectations i think a lot of us hold; in the same way we wouldn't want to see a canbomb there without extraordinary circumstances since the probability to catch uninolved players in the midst of those kinds of actions is really, really high.

i know also, now, maybe more than ever since i've been around in goon, RP isn't meant to be the primary driving focus for the game or the development pathways. i am really torn because i thought this idea was maybe important enough to share but i don't wanna be a whiny "RP-only player" when it comes to perspective on this; so it's really difficult to get my thoughts out on this in a way that, to me doesn't sound too...needy? pressuring? idk. but i was thinking that if you were to make pathology a separate job, distinct from even genetics, it could be really helpful for RP contexts if after the trial period and many months from now there's maybe a realization something different might be needed. i was thinking along the lines that a separate pathologist job could have an RP-defined toggle for non-antag status on it; whether that would end up being needed because of that universally-involving nature of pathology is certainly yet to be seen and nothing anyone has to make a firm decision on any time soon. not really my ideal, and i don't think it's anyones'. i guess it's about options, with where i'm looking at it, and being able to adapt what is, truly, a really great system, to work in the different player environments fostered here. and i don't really want this to be THE driving thing behind the path that this rework continues to take, but i wanted to just add my thoughts. it's very complex and hard for me to say that, in a way that this matters a lot to me, but i also recognize it doesn't really matter at all.

i do think pathology where it's at right now is far more fun to experience and interact with on goon2 and goon4, and i've had a lot of fun myself working on testing it out on a local server and just reading through the documentation, working with the machines, and being in awe of the thoroughness of the mechanics. this is a really wonderful addition. thank you for all you did and continue to do on this project.
Reply
#21
I don't have much feedback on pathology impacting the rounds yet, but I gotta say: patho as a game mechanic is suprisingly much more user friendly and fun to play with than it was before. And researching higher tier pathogens doesn't take a long time at all, so it fits goon2 pace quite well.

One small thing regarding the interface tho: it does not update when you're inserting new vials that you want to split and analyze. Very minor and patho UI is miles better than it was before, but still.

And about pathologist job: I really think it's a good idea, nobody benefits from having 5 doctors messing around in the patho lab. Pathology is very much intented to be messed with by no more than one person (on most of the maps at least). And having a dedicated job would lower the overall suspicion that occurs whenever someone enters pathology lab. Because it used to mean: someone is about to unleash a deadly virus. If it was a regular job, it'd simply mean: a pathologist is working on a new pathogen. Will it be a beneficial or harmful one? We'll see
Reply
#22
I definitely see where you're coming from, nefarious, I play on the rp server too!
Pathogens infecting everyone without them directly interacting them is quite a conundrum. Although maybe the long incubation time is *kind of* an escalation thing, since it takes several minutes for a pathogen to really start doing bad things to you.
But yeah, it would be nice if people would only make deadly pathogens under the same circumstances that they would make canbombs, that is, hardly ever. But unlike canbombs it's kind of a slippery slope where people keep adding things to their pathogens until they are unreasonably deadly, when they initially only set out to make a minor annoying thing.
Not sure how to address this. :/

(01-14-2021, 04:31 AM)TTerc Wrote: One small thing regarding the interface tho: it does not update when you're inserting new vials that you want to split and analyze.

Yeah, thanks, I'll see if I can fix that!
EDIT: Should be fixed now, as soon as the next PR is merged. Please let me know if the problem persists! I think there may be a small issue with the currently active pathogen not being updated, but the others should be, which is already a step up! I'll take a look to fix that issue when I have time.
Reply
#23
Did some testing last night, managed to successfuly isolate 2 good tier 2 symptoms, and a tier 1 spreading symptom, and then subsequently created a working pathogen that spread amongst the monkeys.

NB: I'm assuming changlings are immune to diseases as I tried to infect myself while a changling, but it didn't affect me at all, neither did rolling in the monkey pathogen fart clouds with no clothes on.

Overall, very much liking how much clearer everything is, as well as being able to identify which dna strands are what.
Reply
#24
Very much liking the changes so far. It feels fairly easy to get a Good healing virus up and running, but perhaps like a annoucment console to that a healing virus would be tested among the crew. Also for the farting and sweating mechanics, they dont really make much sense and yeah they are annoying, like others have said.
There also seems to be a problem in curing because not many people know how to cure a virus at all. Perhaps make it a bit easier to see where you need to go to get cured, and easier to make a cure?
Reply
#25
Here are a few thoughts I have that are more related to how Pathology as a department can function, rather than the specific mechanics.

My biggest desire is for Pathology to *make money*. By coordinating with Cargo, viral samples can be requested, and by exporting cures/vaccines and maybe even reports on the pathogen, money can be made. This could very well be the primary gameplay loop of Pathology outside of outbreaks - order sample, perform actual research, synthesize drug/cure, maybe fill out form (maybe a special kind of paper object? idk), and export for D O S H. Currently the only real way to make money is Mining and getting lucky on the market, though Botany can be helpful regardless. And, importantly, this makes Pathology less of a Toxins "your purpose is to create WMDs" and more Mining "your purpose is to do stuff and make money and maybe occasionally cause chaos".

That'd be *on top* of healing pathogens, of course. I think they're great, though I don't like just how infectious they seem to be. Could there be publicly accessible methods of alleviating some annoying symptoms like those farts or whatever?

And, lastly, how about an Access Lock? Specifically a Pathologist (assuming that is a planned job) can swipe their ID on a device or an access control panel for the doors to lock and unlock it, as can the MDir. An MDir's lock should also have higher priority - that is, a pathologist cannot override an MDir's lock, but an MDir can override a pathologist's lock.
Reply
#26
(01-14-2021, 01:02 AM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote: Yeah, the spread via clouds is working a lot more efficiently than I had anticipated, due to the servers having such a ludicrous amount of players, none of which are really taking care to avoid them.
Personally, I am not very attached to the visuals either, but what do you think could replace them for airborne spread, in a way that is still clearly visible?

I actually have a few ideas for this. First of all, instead of every pathogen being a musty green, the contents of the pathogen should change its color. Just like how chems do it. If not, then make every pathogen have a random color associated with it, so that people can call out, "The purple pathogen is a healer".

Another thing, would be to have seperate textures for the gas cloud. Kind of like the sprite for the blowing smoke cloud, though less obnoxious. Of course, you can really use any sprite. But make sure that the sprite can be clicked through, otherwise we'll have the same problem of not being able to interact with small things under them.
Reply
#27
(01-14-2021, 08:11 PM)Froggit_Dogget Wrote:
(01-14-2021, 01:02 AM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote: Yeah, the spread via clouds is working a lot more efficiently than I had anticipated, due to the servers having such a ludicrous amount of players, none of which are really taking care to avoid them.
Personally, I am not very attached to the visuals either, but what do you think could replace them for airborne spread, in a way that is still clearly visible?

I actually have a few ideas for this. First of all, instead of every pathogen being a musty green, the contents of the pathogen should change its color. Just like how chems do it. If not, then make every pathogen have a random color associated with it, so that people can call out, "The purple pathogen is a healer".

Another thing, would be to have seperate textures for the gas cloud. Kind of like the sprite for the blowing smoke cloud, though less obnoxious. Of course, you can really use any sprite. But make sure that the sprite can be clicked through, otherwise we'll have the same problem of not being able to interact with small things under them.
Yeah, each pathogen already has a color anyway based on its suppressant, so i could see this working nicely. The downside would be that it would not interface with the smoke system, maybe custom pathogen smoke decals are the way to go.
I don't think I can really make actual smoke clouds change color dynamically or make them click-through, so that may be necessary. :thinking:

(01-14-2021, 08:53 AM)Boxta Wrote: Very much liking the changes so far. It feels fairly easy to get a Good healing virus up and running, but perhaps like a annoucment console to that a healing virus would be tested among the crew. Also for the farting and sweating mechanics, they dont really make much sense and yeah they are annoying, like others have said.
There also seems to be a problem in curing because not many people know how to cure a virus at all. Perhaps make it a bit easier to see where you need to go to get cured, and easier to make a cure?

To be honest, I don't really see a way I could make curing any easier than it already is now, I think this is mainly an issue of noone being familiar with the mechanics yet.
That and the fact that people could have like a dozen different diseases, so you'd need to do twelve times the work, but that should be a problem of the past now with the new changes that allow only one pathogen per person.

(01-14-2021, 09:52 AM)aft2001 Wrote: Here are a few thoughts I have that are more related to how Pathology as a department can function, rather than the specific mechanics.

My biggest desire is for Pathology to *make money*. By coordinating with Cargo, viral samples can be requested, and by exporting cures/vaccines and maybe even reports on the pathogen, money can be made. This could very well be the primary gameplay loop of Pathology outside of outbreaks - order sample, perform actual research, synthesize drug/cure, maybe fill out form (maybe a special kind of paper object? idk), and export for D O S H. Currently the only real way to make money is Mining and getting lucky on the market, though Botany can be helpful regardless. And, importantly, this makes Pathology less of a Toxins "your purpose is to create WMDs" and more Mining "your purpose is to do stuff and make money and maybe occasionally cause chaos".

That'd be *on top* of healing pathogens, of course. I think they're great, though I don't like just how infectious they seem to be. Could there be publicly accessible methods of alleviating some annoying symptoms like those farts or whatever?

And, lastly, how about an Access Lock? Specifically a Pathologist (assuming that is a planned job) can swipe their ID on a device or an access control panel for the doors to lock and unlock it, as can the MDir. An MDir's lock should also have higher priority - that is, a pathologist cannot override an MDir's lock, but an MDir can override a pathologist's lock.

Yeah, making money with pathology is something I could see, not sure how well it could work though. You can't really scale it up, since a stronger pathogen isn't really any harder to make a cure for than a weaker one, so the price would just be something pretty low, to prevent abuse.
Not sure if it could really work well, and I don't wanna break the economy. Maybe there could be something like the CDC asking for a cure for a pathogen and there is a time limit to send back a cure, or the money you get depends on your speed.

Yeah, the smoke and sweat spreading symptoms are just a bit annoying at the moment, I'll just be toning those down specifically.

A few maps already have a lockdown button in patho! I'd love to see it added to more maps though, and maybe with an access lock and in a way where you can lock from the outside. But the main thing would be restricting access right now, so that there's less people running around in there each round.

(01-14-2021, 06:47 AM)Daktangle Wrote: Did some testing last night, managed to successfuly isolate 2 good tier 2 symptoms, and a tier 1 spreading symptom, and then subsequently created a working pathogen that spread amongst the monkeys.

NB: I'm assuming changlings are immune to diseases as I tried to infect myself while a changling, but it didn't affect me at all, neither did rolling in the monkey pathogen fart clouds with no clothes on.

Overall, very much liking how much clearer everything is, as well as being able to identify which dna strands are what.

Yes, I believe vampires and werewolves are immune, changelings might be too? Either that or you already had a virus of that strain, or maybe you had viral resistance you were not aware of.
Reply
#28
From doing patho a couple of times now (and not doing so before it was disabled), I'm pretty happy with how it works and what you have to do. My main concern is that the vague hints + need to cross-reference the wiki makes it rather easy to get mistaken about . The saving grace of toxins or artlab is even if you fuck up majorly as a non-antag the worst you'll reasonably do is blow one large hole in the station or set the place on fire. I do remember thinking that you could add reagents to a dish you're examining by using the beaker on the microscope, but even when I added to the petri dish I didn't find the message I was supposed to get. (I ended up going off the pathogen computer labelling it good that I had the right symptom)

Maybe aside from beneficial symptoms we could also do with more neutral stuff, so there's more wiggle room to not accidentally worsen a round.


It seems a quite difficult mechanic and I feel like if we were to see a pathologist job (rather than a med research one), it'd better be timegated because newbies aren't going to be able to wrap their heads around this as their introduction to goon.

Also have people tried curing pathogens they made yet? I did it yesterday, and although it was only one time and one person it took a long while for my stage 4 virus to recede completely.

---

With regards to your earlier wondering about how to combat escalating bad paths (akin to canbombs), maybe a tally/indicator of how bad your pathogen is estimated to be could be useful somewhere.
Reply
#29
Yup, I have had plans to do something like health analyzers giving an approximate guess of how dangerous or helpful a pathogen is, I can definitely revisit them.
I've also thought that curing was pretty slow, I'd like to make it faster, yeah. It depends on the advance rate right now, which is pretty dumb lol.

As for microscope hints, you need to put the petri dish into a microscope and then use a dropper on the microscope. You are not the first person to have trouble with this, it should really be clearer somehow...

As for the difficulty, I think lots of jobs are sort of difficult at first, like toxins or engineering. I'd like to keep Pathology one of the disciplines in which one needs a bit more experience, new players can already have fun with genetics and stuff easily.
Reply
#30
A thing that I personally dislike with pathology at the moment is the pathogen puddles. They are just incredibly annoying and I feel that it would be more fitting for them to be a gas when in this form.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)