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Make nukies helmet/mask acid smoke immune?
#1
I don't know if it's balanced. I'm not sure how other people feel about it. It's not really fun when all the nukies get gassed by a scientist suicide bombing/not caring about collateral. I just played a round that ended pretty much instantly when all of the nukies got caught in a hellmix. 

I know it punishes nukies that group up, but guarding the nuke is what you're supposed to do. If there's one group that should have acidproof stuff I feel that it should be nuke ops.
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#2
Agree. It's too easy for chem nerds to wreck nukies.

Ideally they would never get in range but movement speed is high and it's easy to make holes to get into a room.
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#3
I've had a nukie round end thanks to an owl grenade the RD randomly started with; No internals and the entrance hole we made caused us to suffocate quickly.

Not sure if acid immunity, but at least some resistance would be nice. Same for wizard gear. Perhaps the nukies should have a choice of armors with different strengths/weaknesses so the whole team doesn't go down to X or Y? Or some sort of smith job that focuses on enhancing gear? Could even have their own cool version of the sledge.
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#4
The best possible solution is the ban use of hellsmoke on the station as a nonantagonist for any reason. Chemnerds are the literal worst kind of players.
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#5
(09-27-2020, 08:27 AM)Lord Birb Wrote: The best possible solution is the ban use of hellsmoke on the station as a nonantagonist for any reason. Chemnerds are the literal worst kind of players.

That makes absolutely no sense though, if there is a team of nuclear operatives that will blow the station to smithereens in a few minutes.
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#6
(09-27-2020, 11:33 AM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote:
(09-27-2020, 08:27 AM)Lord Birb Wrote: The best possible solution is the ban use of hellsmoke on the station as a nonantagonist for any reason. Chemnerds are the literal worst kind of players.

That makes absolutely no sense though, if there is a team of nuclear operatives that will blow the station to smithereens in a few minutes.

You could use the same argument for using TTVs during a nukeops round but we ban those for good reason. Just treat hellsmoking as a nonantagonist the same way as TTVing as a nonantagonist: banned
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#7
I hope we can stay on the "should nukie gear be acidproof?" discussion without derailing into "fuck chemistry" territory...going there doesn't lead to anything productive.

It's not even accurate to say we ban people for hellsmoking as non-antag or in general ban people for this or that. Factors like whether and to what degree the person committed the offense in the past, how they received/reacted to reprimands for said offenses, and such matter way more than the type of offense.

Anyways, yeah, acid splash removing headgear in general, doesn't feel very balanced in its current state. The main counterplay is "bring spare headgear", and that doesn't feel very fun, for reasons other have explained. It's worse for nukies too; they tend to be a little strapped for inventory space, so bringing extra helmets has a non-trivial cost.

Like brixx, I'm not sure if full-on immunity is the answer, though I could accept it as a temporary measure. Acid resistance sounds like a good compromise for both victims and perpetrators of acid.

Perhaps the simplest would be to have acid resistance reduce the effective dose of acid. So if a helmet has say 50% acid resist, and you get 10 units of acid splashed onto you, you  suffer the effects of a dose of only 5 units of acid. So if you want to melt people's headwear off to make them more vulnerable, you gotta readjust the acid you put in, which might eat in to the amount of other lethal chems you put in.

But if you wanted to make something real immersive (and are not afraid of doing a lot of work), maybe one could rework acid into creating a "Splashed with Acid" status effect that, if it last a certain amount of time, melts your headgear. Acid resistance makes it have to tick down for longer, certain chems and showers clear away the effect, and you can wipe it away yourself on a delay, but suffer acid burn on your hands if you're not being careful.
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#8
Somewhat of a problem with that last suggestion is that changeling acid spit melting headgear is kinda a big deal, given their feeding requirements.
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#9
i'm all for student's effective dose reduction - irreplaceable helmets should probably just reduce the effectiveness of acid rather than be deleted.

IIRC it's actually the mask actually performs the full on protection? Helmets reducing the volume could mean there's a greater threshold for fluoro chemsmokes melting the mask.

I personally like the idea of acid resistance for these things degrading, too. so maybe the first application is completely blocked, but as acid is used more the helmet lets more and more through (so acid beakers remain a viable melee weapon)
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#10
I had a suggestion a while back to make wizard hats melt over time instead of instantly, it went nowhere. It would be similarly good here.
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#11
(09-28-2020, 01:37 AM)BlackPhoenix Wrote: Somewhat of a problem with that last suggestion is that changeling acid spit melting headgear is kinda a big deal, given their feeding requirements.

There's nothing preventing changeling spit being a totally special thing.
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#12
(09-28-2020, 08:14 AM)Katzen Wrote:
(09-28-2020, 01:37 AM)BlackPhoenix Wrote: Somewhat of a problem with that last suggestion is that changeling acid spit melting headgear is kinda a big deal, given their feeding requirements.

There's nothing preventing changeling spit being a totally special thing.

^^^This.

(09-28-2020, 05:20 AM)vampirate Wrote: I had a suggestion a while back to make wizard hats melt over time instead of instantly, it went nowhere. It would be similarly good here.

It was a good idea (I was for it) but was ultimately shot down because of how OP certain wizard strats were. I think the general consensus was that these strats need to be reworked before buffing wizards hats.

As for the idea itself, the problem isn't so much the helmets melting - it's the masks. No mask = vulnerability to airlessness and further inhalants, pretty detrimental to nuke ops.

If we take the idea that anything that is "dense" (Spacesuit helmets, sec helmets, hard hats, nuke op gear, anything that's armored really) melts over time instead of instantaneously, that would be a good change. If a coder is arsed, they could tie in the melt over time with the armor stats. Or instead give those dense hats their own acid stat (which is already a thing, if I recall) and tie the time takes to melt with the acid stat.

Furthermore, they should also be layered, if you excuse my poor terminology. Currently both will melt at the same time afaik. Instead, dense hats should melts first, then further exposure will melt masks.
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#13
(09-28-2020, 01:37 AM)BlackPhoenix Wrote: Somewhat of a problem with that last suggestion is that changeling acid spit melting headgear is kinda a big deal, given their feeding requirements.

As long as it's shooting out at least 18u of fluoro an acid resistance stat of 50% on a helmet wouldn't prevent it from melting the helmet.

For what it's worth I think part of the problem is how fluoro smoke melts stuff. As long as there's at least 9u in the cloud it seems to melt all headgear in the cloud, even if you aren't actually getting 9u applied to you. (In clouds of fluoro smoke without a mask I often get the message that it's not concentrated enough to harm me and don't get my face melted, since the smoke is applied over time, although it seems to reliably take masks and hats out)
The other problem is that aerosol propellant continues to be horrible and oldsmoke really should have just been removed instead of just getting a new recipe.
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#14
Can we give nukies gas masks?
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