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Unban Appeal
#16
Eventually I just stopped and tried to apologize but then was told it doesn't matter so what the heck is the point. I should have apologized in the beginning but its not like they say do not attempt to argue and just explain why you are wrong, nothing else.

(09-09-2020, 12:20 PM)warcrimes Wrote: this isn't sunday school we don't teach you how to give a shit about people, we just weed out those who don't.

if you don't get the basics of "racism bad, compassion good" without a whole AP course and debate, we're not interested.
SO THE PERSON WITH A PERFECT RECORD MAKING A PASSING BY RACIST JOKE NOT INTENDED FOR ANYONE IS A BAD PERSON AND SHOULD BE GIVEN A 30 DAY BAN XD
#17
To the best of my understanding, none of the admins have lied to you. You broke the rule. You might not have understood the rule, you might not have thought it applied, whatever, but you broke it. If you approach it from something like 'hey i don't understand why i got banned, i don't get it because (i was in the room by myself / only one person heard me and they weren't offended / whatever) that at least gives us something to work with, we can say 'okay yeah here's the confusion, the rule means this and here's why it applies here'. You didn't do that. You stormed in all "Flat out banning someone for a dark humor joke is not ok. Their are no specified rules against speaking my mind freely and a whole 29 days for saying something someone else doesn't like is crazy, I said this joke to only one other police officer and he laughed it off. It didn't make a scene or ruin roleplay by being a toxic person just one admin reading something they didn't like, people have different sense of humor's and was not a direct attack on anyone. " which, from my reading, boils down to 'The rules I didn't read don't exist, and even if they do, they're crazy.' This does not set you up as someone willing to learn from their mistakes.

I promise you we actually do not expect players to be perfect automatons that never break rules. We get that especially in this game, there's gonna be situations where people get pissed off, or find themselves in a situation where they're not sure what the rules have to say about it, or stuff like that. We don't expect perfection, we expect people to put a good faith effort into obeying the rules, and if they screw up, give the admin staff the benefit of the doubt and ask what the deal is before jumping straight to 'this is not ok, you're all crazy'.

Nobody here is telling you you can't apologize. I actually can't figure out where you got that idea - but, good thing this ain't my ban and therefore not my problem. I was posting to try and give you some advice as to why this thread went sideways, and suggestions for how to try again if it wound up not working out. That doesn't seem to be helping, so good luck!
#18
(09-09-2020, 12:25 PM)popecrunch Wrote: To the best of my understanding, none of the admins have lied to you.  You broke the rule.  You might not have understood the rule, you might not have thought it applied, whatever, but you broke it.  If you approach it from something like 'hey i don't understand why i got banned, i don't get it because (i was in the room by myself / only one person heard me and they weren't offended / whatever) that at least gives us something to work with, we can say 'okay yeah here's the confusion, the rule means this and here's why it applies here'.  You didn't do that.  You stormed in all "Flat out banning someone for a dark humor joke is not ok. Their are no specified rules against speaking my mind freely and a whole 29 days for saying something someone else doesn't like is crazy, I said this joke to only one other police officer and he laughed it off. It didn't make a scene or ruin roleplay by being a toxic person just one admin reading something they didn't like, people have different sense of humor's and was not a direct attack on anyone. " which, from my reading, boils down to 'The rules I didn't read don't exist, and even if they do, they're crazy.'  This does not set you up as someone willing to learn from their mistakes.

I promise you we actually do not expect players to be perfect automatons that never break rules.  We get that especially in this game, there's gonna be situations where people get pissed off, or find themselves in a situation where they're not sure what the rules have to say about it, or stuff like that. We don't expect perfection, we expect people to put a good faith effort into obeying the rules, and if they screw up, give the admin staff the benefit of the doubt and ask what the deal is before jumping straight to 'this is not ok, you're all crazy'.

Nobody here is telling you you can't apologize.  I actually can't figure out where you got that idea - but, good thing this ain't my ban and therefore not my problem.  I was posting to try and give you some advice as to why this thread went sideways, and suggestions for how to try again if it wound up not working out.  That doesn't seem to be helping, so good luck!
"if your argument revolves around "racism is allowed on goonstation because dictionary" i'm sorry but i don't thing rodney dick is going to have much to work with here. 
I strongly suggest you rewrite your appeal to be less of... whatever this is. " 
ya wonder why I gave up huh
#19
that still stands.
racism is not allowed here.
the rules say so.

you're not going to change that- therefore that's not what your appeal should say.
it was a good faith bit of advice because I was hoping you would not double down on it.
#20
(09-09-2020, 12:00 PM)warcrimes Wrote: hey, you might be interested to know we actually do have the entire context.
we have full round logs that detail everything you do and say, where you say it, and when you say it.
the context is exactly what makes REFERING TO THE MONKEYS YOU ARE STRANGLING AS AFRICAN AMERICANS racist.
the context is exactly what makes REFERING TO KNEELING ON THE NECKS OF THOSE AFOREMENTIONED MONKEYS racist.
without context, none of those phrases make any sense, they are random garbage. with context, it's racism. it's straight insensitivity. it's monstrous.
the context is exactly what makes all of this look really really bad for you- and is exactly why you're here. It's nowhere near as nuanced as you make it out to be.

The fact that you said some horribly offensive things in round is not a question, it's fact. we have the transcript. it's exactly what it says, and you even said yourself that it was a "somewhat racist" joke. im quoting you here, in this thread. you know it was racist- you admitted it. you meant it to be racist? maybe. who cares. you came here expecting to convince us that you have a right to express your racist jokes here. You don't. that's also not up for debate or discussion. Rule 4 is clear, your actions are clear, it's all very cut and dry.

The singular question at hand is this:
Do you, zeWuzard, understand that this behavior was horrible, and is absolutely unacceptable?
Are you, zeWuzard, actually sorry for saying something so disgustingly mocking of human suffering?
Are you, zeWuzard, likely to do this same shit again? Are we signing up for someone who argues about the definition of racist every time they make fun of black people getting murdered on the street?
or are you sorry you got caught? are you more concerned with erasing the black stain on your reputation now?

Right now all i see is you came up here determined to tell us that we were wrong to ban you for making fun of George Floyd, of the murders of thousands of black men. You came here to defend your reputation and avoid, by any means necessary, taking responsibility for what you said and who you hurt.
You came here solely to get yourself out of trouble, and didn't give even a second thought to how disgusting what you joked about really is.

This is a lose-lose situation because you immediately wrote off the only winning move:
admitting you fucked up and getting better. learning. growing, even a little bit. being even the slightest bit considerate to people who are forced to read your obnoxious racist bullshit hotdog vomit "jokes".

Most of all I think you wasted our time, and I hope you don't come back.
Man if only you came in here saying thoughs exact words instead of slapping me in the face over and over with the same garbage saying im wrong and your right I might have tried to understand how a racist joke anywhere is not ok on the server and that your not alone such as, ghost's, admins, ai are always watching you which i never knew until someone else said it to me no thanks to you. but no you came in and shit on my front door step just trying to turn this whole thing around to make me look bad taking my words out of context and putting it into your own narrative to say "im right and your wrong"

(09-09-2020, 12:38 PM)warcrimes Wrote: that still stands.
racism is not allowed here.
the rules say so.

you're not going to change that- therefore that's not what your appeal should say.
it was a good faith bit of advice because I was hoping you would not double down on it.
My entire first argument was a cry for misunderstanding of the rules. NO WHERE did i say i support the racist remark and i only ceded when you said my argument did not matter and i should apologies
#21
yeah i have no doubt if my first reply was "here's exactly what you need to say to get unbanned" you might have figured it out, but we tried everything in-between first.

at the end of the day we are not interested in having someone around if we need to babysit and spoonfeed them such basic concepts as "don't imply black people are monkeys" but here we are anyway.

I think you're full of shit for saying it the first time, i think you're full of shit for not realising that's a terrible thing to say.
I think you're full of shit for requiring us to define the rules in ridiculously precise language to get you to admit that what you said was shit.
even now, you still have not apologized for the racism, just accusing us of misleading you and babbling about context - when all of my posts were gently guiding you toward what you needed to do to get out of this.

I am not only denying this appeal-
we have discussed this internally and decided we do not think you belong here.
I am increasing your ban to permanent.

That doesn't mean you cannot appeal.
Permanent ban means you have to wait 30 days from today, after which you can make a new appeal.
That appeal better show growth in you as a person, and a much deeper understanding not only of *WHAT* our rules are, what they mean - but also WHY they are.

I expect an appeal that goes in depth about your comments, the harm they do to our community, our game, and our staff- and I expect it to be sincere.
You will not reply to this post, and you will not post any appeal until October 9th, 2020.

with all my blessings,
Goodbye.


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