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Unban Appeal
#1
Who banned you?: Rodneydick
Byond Key: zeWuzard
Date of Ban: 9/8/2020
Specified Reason for Ban: After killing a monkey: Judah Meyers ZeWuzard says, "woo now" "we call them african americans geez " - While choking another monkey: "hold on" "let me put my knee on his neck". This isn't acceptable, and you should know better
Ban Length: 29.6 days
What led to the ban?: Specified in the reason 
Why am I appealing?: Flat out banning someone for a dark humor joke is not ok. Their are no specified rules against speaking my mind freely and a whole 29 days for saying something someone else doesn't like is crazy, I said this joke to only one other police officer and he laughed it off. It didn't make a scene or ruin roleplay by being a toxic person just one admin reading something they didn't like, people have different sense of humor's and was not a direct attack on anyone. 
Which rule did you break?: I was in no direct violation of any rules as their are none pertaining directly to dark humor or to a somewhat racist joke 
Evasion Attempts: this is my first ever ban, I was offline and haven't even, ever been given a warning before on any other Byond server of to my knowledge as I am still pretty decently new.
#2
Quote:as their are none pertaining directly to dark humor or to a somewhat racist joke
Just flat-out incorrect and I *strongly* suggest you read the rules before making such bold statements.

Quote:4. Bigotry and sexual content is a non-negotiable hard 'no'
Bigoted language (for example, slurs) is also not allowed in your BYOND key, character name, flavor text, or anything else with which you interact with the server, whether as a joke, or masked with misspellings or spoonerisms.
#3
(09-09-2020, 07:54 AM)warcrimes Wrote:
Quote:as their are none pertaining directly to dark humor or to a somewhat racist joke
Just flat-out incorrect and I *strongly* suggest you read the rules before making such bold statements.

4. Bigotry and sexual content is a non-negotiable hard 'no'

Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.


That doesn't pertain to racism?

(09-09-2020, 07:54 AM)warcrimes Wrote:
Quote:as their are none pertaining directly to dark humor or to a somewhat racist joke
Just flat-out incorrect and I *strongly* suggest you read the rules before making such bold statements.

Quote:4. Bigotry and sexual content is a non-negotiable hard 'no'
Bigoted language (for example, slurs) is also not allowed in your BYOND key, character name, flavor text, or anything else with which you interact with the server, whether as a joke, or masked with misspellings or spoonerisms.

I would understand if i said that kind of joke in a room full of people and putting a sour taste in their mouth but i said it with one other person and they laughed it off and couldn't care less. Why saying something, basically in private to your self does not hurt the server
#4
i'll help you by pasting the second half of the dictionary definition you chose to explain to us how racism isn't bigotry: 
Quote:especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

if your argument revolves around "racism is allowed on goonstation because dictionary" i'm sorry but i don't thing rodney dick is going to have much to work with here. 
I strongly suggest you rewrite your appeal to be less of... whatever this is. 

Other than that, i've alerted them to your existence, they'll get to you when they have time.
#5
(09-09-2020, 08:01 AM)warcrimes Wrote: i'll help you by pasting the second half of the dictionary definition you chose to explain to us how racism isn't bigotry: 
Quote:especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

if your argument revolves around "racism is allowed on goonstation because dictionary" i'm sorry but i don't thing rodney dick is going to have much to work with here. 
I strongly suggest you rewrite your appeal to be less of... whatever this is. 

Other than that, i've alerted them to your existence, they'll get to you when they have time.
That is just one of my arguments......? I said this was in private and said to only one other person who didn't care this was not a public thing and did not hurt the server or any other person, at all

Like am I sorry for making a racist joke? of course, but who do i apologies to? only one person who liked it, heard it and nobody else.......

(09-09-2020, 08:01 AM)warcrimes Wrote: i'll help you by pasting the second half of the dictionary definition you chose to explain to us how racism isn't bigotry: 
Quote:especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

if your argument revolves around "racism is allowed on goonstation because dictionary" i'm sorry but i don't thing rodney dick is going to have much to work with here. 
I strongly suggest you rewrite your appeal to be less of... whatever this is. 

Other than that, i've alerted them to your existence, they'll get to you when they have time
Also are you saying I 'DIRECTLY' insulted or said that joke to offend Black people? Because no where in that joke did I put down another culture I simply made a dark humor joke deriving what is happening in America and in no way did I use it in a way of saying I hated African American's.

I would say the only way that was a racist joke was by making the inference that African American's are monkey but i was using more as symbolism then to make a derogatory use of it
#6
[Image: giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47pdvrekyo10fnjn6hrw...=giphy.gif]
#7
(09-09-2020, 09:04 AM)warcrimes Wrote: [Image: giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47pdvrekyo10fnjn6hrw...=giphy.gif]
why is saying some dark humor in private bad?? you still haven't retorted that fact, just because I said it doesn't mean it actually did anything
#8
i'm not your banning admin, like i told you. that's rodney. no retorts here.

i was just passing through to give you friendly advice on how to seem less like you're trying to justify your racism, and more like you want to get unbanned.
because i guarantee you, nobody here is stupid enough to fall for it.
calling racism "dark humor" is just about the laziest excuse you can come up with, and it's been overplayed since 2005.
"non negotiable hard no" isn't an invitation to start a highschool debate where if you win, we spread cheek and say "racist jokes are fine actually".
that's never going to happen. ever. not in a hundred years.
it's non-negotiable. don't negotiate.


so either write something apologetic before Rodney comes online and makes a swift decision, or shovel faster.
#9
I'm sorry for making the joke, I'm not a racist and was bored and passing the time I did not know that making racist remarks to your self in Space station 13 was a bannable offense and will keep the toxicity down to a minimum and not so extreme.

I wasn't trying to justify but putting context behind something that had none, as you can not see what was happening during the events that transpired.
#10
See that's the thing, it's not in private. Making those comments in private would be if you were to say them, to yourself, in a room where nobody else can see it. That's not what you did. You said those things on our servers, where lots of people can hear them - admins, ghosts, people who might have bugged the room. This isn't my ban so I'm not touching this one, but in the event this appeal is denied and you want to try again later, I would strongly recommend not coming at this from a 'Flat out banning someone for a dark humor joke is not ok. Their are no specified rules against speaking my mind freely' angle, but from a 'using your stuff to say things you don't allow was a bad move, and i won't do it again' angle. That'll work a lot better.

You might want to have a look at the 'considering screaming about free speech in your appeal? Read this!' thread in this forum for a deeper dive into exactly why it is, in fact, completely ok for us to limit what you can say and how you can act on our servers.

I'm leaving aside the question of whether those things are appropriate to joke about in any context, because I have neither the ability nor the will to police what you do elsewhere, but spending a little time thinking about why we take such a hard line on that sort of speech might benefit you. Here's a hint: It's not because we're unreasonable jerks.
#11
(09-09-2020, 11:14 AM)popecrunch Wrote: See that's the thing, it's not in private.  Making those comments in private would be if you were to say them, to yourself, in a room where nobody else can see it.  That's not what you did.  You said those things on our servers, where lots of people can hear them - admins, ghosts, people who might have bugged the room.  This isn't my ban so I'm not touching this one, but in the event this appeal is denied and you want to try again later, I would strongly recommend not coming at this from a 'Flat out banning someone for a dark humor joke is not ok. Their are no specified rules against speaking my mind freely' angle, but from a 'using your stuff to say things you don't allow was a bad move, and i won't do it again' angle.  That'll work a lot better.

You might want to have a look at the 'considering screaming about free speech in your appeal? Read this!' thread in this forum for a deeper dive into exactly why it is, in fact, completely ok for us to limit what you can say and how you can act on our servers.

I'm leaving aside the question of whether those things are appropriate to joke about in any context, because I have neither the ability nor the will to police what you do elsewhere, but spending a little time thinking about why we take such a hard line on that sort of speech might benefit you.  Here's a hint: It's not because we're unreasonable jerks.
I said things I said because Their was absolutely no context behind my words making it look like I'm a racist bigot. If I just apologized that would be me saying I 100% agree that is exactly what it was suppose to mean in a harmful and hurtful manner. If I apologies I look bad, if I  give me opinion on the matter I'm a Satanist who doesn't know what humor is, its a lose lose situation for me where the admins word is final and nothing I can do against it.
#12
We don't care about context. You could point to a youtube of a popular commercial that uses that exact text to sell hot dogs or whatever and claim you were just using a catchphrase and we would not care. We do not care about your background, your faith, whether or not you meant to be hurtful, any of that. We care about 'do not say or do bigoted things on our servers', we decide what fits that definition, end of list. You are wasting your time approaching this from an angle of 'it's BS to tell me I can't say things ingame' because it's flatly incorrect; you're wasting your time approaching this from an angle of 'well now i can't apologize because if i do, i'll be admitting i'm a racist' because we do not care; you're wasting your time approaching this from an angle of 'well THIS definition of bigotry that I only copied half of excludes this particular use case' because we get to decide what is and is not cool on our servers.

We don't care about any of that. What we do care about is the rule, which in this case reads as follows:
"Bigotry and sexual content is a non-negotiable hard 'no'. If you are unsure what sexual content includes: do not refer to sex acts, genitalia, or anything sexual in nature. Rape 'jokes' are considered sexual content. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use the word rape in this game. Yes, you can call people dicks and insult them with terms that are used normally, but don't use bigoted language or slurs. Common examples of bigoted language include calling people 'retards' or 'traps', or using 'gay' in a derogatory manner. If an admin tells you to knock something off because it breaks the no bigotry or sexual content rule, that is not an invitation for debate. Knock it off or go elsewhere. Bigoted language (for example, slurs) is also not allowed in your BYOND key, character name, flavor text, or anything else with which you interact with the server, whether as a joke, or masked with misspellings or spoonerisms."
You broke that rule. That is not in question. What we care about is if we can believe you're not going to do it again, and you're not making a real good case for yourself here. I would *very strongly* recommend you chalk this appeal up to a learning experience and try again later, but again: Not my ban, not my problem.

It's also worth noting - since you claimed to be a Satanist - that you're not exactly following your own dogma here. Most forms of Satanism are basically LaVeyan Satanism with extra steps, and number three in the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth reads as follows:

"When in another's home, show them respect or else do not go there."

This is our space, our home. By breaking our rules, you are not showing respect. Either follow the rules, or do not come here.
#13
hey, you might be interested to know we actually do have the entire context.
we have full round logs that detail everything you do and say, where you say it, and when you say it.
the context is exactly what makes REFERING TO THE MONKEYS YOU ARE STRANGLING AS AFRICAN AMERICANS racist.
the context is exactly what makes REFERING TO KNEELING ON THE NECKS OF THOSE AFOREMENTIONED MONKEYS racist.
without context, none of those phrases make any sense, they are random garbage. with context, it's racism. it's straight insensitivity. it's monstrous.
the context is exactly what makes all of this look really really bad for you- and is exactly why you're here. It's nowhere near as nuanced as you make it out to be.

The fact that you said some horribly offensive things in round is not a question, it's fact. we have the transcript. it's exactly what it says, and you even said yourself that it was a "somewhat racist" joke. im quoting you here, in this thread. you know it was racist- you admitted it. you meant it to be racist? maybe. who cares. you came here expecting to convince us that you have a right to express your racist jokes here. You don't. that's also not up for debate or discussion. Rule 4 is clear, your actions are clear, it's all very cut and dry.

The singular question at hand is this:
Do you, zeWuzard, understand that this behavior was horrible, and is absolutely unacceptable?
Are you, zeWuzard, actually sorry for saying something so disgustingly mocking of human suffering?
Are you, zeWuzard, likely to do this same shit again? Are we signing up for someone who argues about the definition of racist every time they make fun of black people getting murdered on the street?
or are you sorry you got caught? are you more concerned with erasing the black stain on your reputation now?

Right now all i see is you came up here determined to tell us that we were wrong to ban you for making fun of George Floyd, of the murders of thousands of black men. You came here to defend your reputation and avoid, by any means necessary, taking responsibility for what you said and who you hurt.
You came here solely to get yourself out of trouble, and didn't give even a second thought to how disgusting what you joked about really is.

This is a lose-lose situation because you immediately wrote off the only winning move:
admitting you fucked up and getting better. learning. growing, even a little bit. being even the slightest bit considerate to people who are forced to read your obnoxious racist bullshit hotdog vomit "jokes".

Most of all I think you wasted our time, and I hope you don't come back.
#14
(09-09-2020, 11:42 AM)popecrunch Wrote: We don't care about context.  You could point to a youtube of a popular commercial that uses that exact text to sell hot dogs or whatever and claim you were just using a catchphrase and we would not care.  We do not care about your background, your faith, whether or not you meant to be hurtful, any of that.  We care about 'do not say or do bigoted things on our servers', we decide what fits that definition, end of list.  You are wasting your time approaching this from an angle of 'it's BS to tell me I can't say things ingame' because it's flatly incorrect; you're wasting your time approaching this from an angle of 'well now i can't apologize because if i do, i'll be admitting i'm a racist' because we do not care; you're wasting your time approaching this from an angle of 'well THIS definition of bigotry that I only copied half of excludes this particular use case' because we get to decide what is and is not cool on our servers.

We don't care about any of that.  What we do care about is the rule, which in this case reads as follows:
"Bigotry and sexual content is a non-negotiable hard 'no'. If you are unsure what sexual content includes: do not refer to sex acts, genitalia, or anything sexual in nature. Rape 'jokes' are considered sexual content. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use the word rape in this game. Yes, you can call people dicks and insult them with terms that are used normally, but don't use bigoted language or slurs. Common examples of bigoted language include calling people 'retards' or 'traps', or using 'gay' in a derogatory manner. If an admin tells you to knock something off because it breaks the no bigotry or sexual content rule, that is not an invitation for debate. Knock it off or go elsewhere. Bigoted language (for example, slurs) is also not allowed in your BYOND key, character name, flavor text, or anything else with which you interact with the server, whether as a joke, or masked with misspellings or spoonerisms."
You broke that rule.  That is not in question.  What we care about is if we can believe you're not going to do it again, and you're not making a real good case for yourself here. I would *very strongly* recommend you chalk this appeal up to a learning experience and try again later, but again: Not my ban, not my problem.

It's also worth noting - since you claimed to be a Satanist - that you're not exactly following your own dogma here.  Most forms of Satanism are basically LaVeyan Satanism with extra steps, and number three in the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth reads as follows:

"When in another's home, show them respect or else do not go there."

This is our space, our home.  By breaking our rules, you are not showing respect.  Either follow the roles, or do not come here.
So is this the lying competition or do you guys not want people to say why they think their admins are wrong some times or for people to come in and say they are sorry and do the exact same thing and never change?? I came here to argue and be told why I am wrong, try to understand, then apologies. Then this happened, an admin came in and just smacked a rule in my face and said I'm wrong. Yeah that didn't feel to good or welcoming. Saying "just try not to make racist remarks" would have done, I'm not some snowflake but I don't just like passing bye remarks that just sais "wow your an idiot for not under standing 'bigotry' means no racist jokes ha ha." I got pissed and argued trying to pull some useful information out until I understood but instead "for not saying sorry immediately" I can not apologies and can not explain myself or argue why I think it was wrong.
#15
this isn't sunday school we don't teach you how to give a shit about people, we just weed out those who don't.

if you don't get the basics of "racism bad, compassion good" without a whole AP course and debate, we're not interested.


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