Masked's Rough Ling Rework Concept

[TheMaskedMan2]

THIS IS A LOT OF RAMBLING FROM MY POINT. It's not perfectly structured, it's a lot of being an "The Idea Girl", and I realize that it's asking a lot.

Preface: Why does Changeling need a rework? You may ask. Well in my opinion I feel like Changeling currently doesn't offer that much new or interesting to the game. I feel that Changelings in practice all of their abilities are things traitors may acquire, and generally just run around no different from a normal traitor but with built-in items. The few fun and different things they have are not emphasized enough, or are simply too costly to use regularly.
     So this Rework concept is more of an idea of how I think Ling can be changed to fit into it's own niche on the server with it's own theming, instead of Traitor Variation. How far do we want to take this? I'm not sure. This idea is a little bit nebolous with some core concepts right now, and it's open to changes and suggestions. Balance could be all over the place, that's not for me to decide, but I think the general feel would be positive for the game. Also I know developers work as volunteers and this is asking a LOT. I just think we could at least discuss it and hey, maybe someone will like it.

Theming: Theming and atmosphere I feel is important to me. Currently most antags feel like their own sort of "Thing". With differing levels of how much they effect the round. Traitors are normal crew that will steal things and shoot you in the back. Pretty Vanilla. Vampires are a sorta stealth/rampage mix of an antag that gives people a run around. Wizards are Wizards. Blobs/Revs/Nukies are so strong and in their own feel they only appear in their own gamemodes. (Late Blob not counted). So what should Changeling be? Personally I feel like Ling rounds should emphasize a general "Horror" theme and "Paranoia". There should be body horror, confusion, and generally feel like we're out of The Thing. The ideal feel of the station should be knowing that there is a Ling around, but not who it is. Perfect stealth is boring for the crew in my opinion.

Abilities: To start off, as I do consider this mostly a rework entirely. I imagine Changelings as having two different "Forms", at least. A "Stealth" form (Human.), and an "Assimilation" form. (Spooky Beastie) I'll elaborate, but they have different abilities.

Stealth Form - They spawn in this form, it's essentially a way to say that they are a human. Ideally I feel that Changelings should feel like a monster in a human skin, not a normal human with superpowers, so this form is almost exclusively used for it's more tricksy abilities, blending in, and not for straight up combat. To discourage direct combat, I feel that it should have less max stamina than normal humans, so you don't just get Traitor-Man with sec gear. The lings strength should be it's own horror stuff. Headspider is still a passive.

1. Shed Disguise - Similar to Werewolfs transform, but likely quicker, this is free and will allow the Changeling to "Shed" their disguise, reveal their fleshy bits and begin the spooking. This ability can be used while stunned or even ko'd. (Will elaborate in it's own area.)

2. Transform - Identical to current transform, the Changeling can take the identity of anyone it has assimilated.

3. Mimic Voice - Identical to current ability, because it's fun.

4. Regenerative Stasis - Identical to current ability, but I do think it would be fun if the Changeling could choose when it gets up, so it can play dead more consistently.

5. Weakening Sting - Replaces Neurotoxin (I know, ghastly.) This is the Lings victim preparation ability. Instead of a lengthy knockout like neurotoxin is, this will instead essentially cripple someone. Now i'm not exactly a chem nerd so I am not sure what chems would achieve this effect, but I think that it should slow, lower stamina, force you to speak in a whisper so you can't scream for help, mess with your movement, and generally make you a sitting duck for the most part. You may be wondering how a Ling is supposed to reliably get people? Don't worry, it'll still be amazing at 1v1s, we'll get to that.

6. Hallucinegenic - Identical to current LSD sting, to mess with people. Though I do feel LSD is a bit underwhelming, maybe Psilocybin would also be fun to mix in.

7. DNA Sting - Identical, because it's just fun to mess with people like that.

8. Blinding Spit - Similar to acid spit, but it goes right into your eyes!

9. Critters - I still think Changeling limb critters are very weak and underwhelming, but members of your hivemind that died are shunted into your body again, and you might give them another chance at life!

Assimilation Form - The Changeling reveals it's true colors, a horrible fleshy monstrosity from space! Spooky! Now, before you think I gave Changeling a free horror form, this is not shambler. This is closer to an in-between. A fleshy deformed man with tentacles coming out of him. A few notable traits of this form outside of a completely different set of abilities is that it does not have shamblers stun immunity, or the instantly delimbing arms. It's good at combat, has okay stun resist, but isn't going to solo a group of people. Another difference from shambler is that this form retains the Changelings worn items. They don't effect your stats, but upon changing back you'll still be wearing your clothes. As well, your identity is hidden while in this form. This makes it well suited for what it's to be used for, assimilating people. Got caught in the act of eating someone? Well, you can screech, run away, and still not have your identity blown!

1. Disguise - Recede back into your stealthy human form. Self-explanatory.

2. Assimilate - Big Change here! This is very similar to absorbing as current Ling, but the results are entirely different. In accordance with my belief that it's for the best the crew knows a Ling is around, but there is still the paranoia of not knowing who it is, Assimilation is now a lot less stealthy. It makes a mess, creates blood, and will taint a small area around it.
     A. Cocoons - Upon assimilating someone, instead of creating a simple husk, a fleshy coccon is created. This cocoon harbors the reforming body of the Lings victim. It stains the area around it with gross goo, and generally this area will look like a disgusting horror scene. After X minutes, it will "Hatch" the same crewmember that was assimilated. (To discourage self-antag'ing as well as having people seem "Different", it will not be given to the person eaten, the new role is instead offered to ghosts)
     B. A Mess - Even after hatching, the fleshy remains and stain left on the room will be anchored to the floor, and the hatched cocoon itself can't be cleaned. So even if the Ling goes out of it's way to mop up the blood, wipe the goo away and so on. This horror scene will be left in the floor. Ideally this will add to the paranoia of the round - crew can stumble upon it and a few things will appear in their mind. Mostly, that there is a ling around, secondly, that somebody in the crew - potentially even their department, is no longer who they say they are.
     C. Alternative - If this seems far too imbalanced, another concept I had was that eaten people still create a mess that can't be moved, but they don't turn into a doppelganger or assimilated member until the Changeling returns to their body, spends X amount of dna points, and injects a member of their hivemind into the body to begin gestating. Just for general balance concerns.

3. Screech - Identical to the current ling scream. Disorienter.

4. Acidic Spit - Less of a glorified hat remover, more of a face-melting burn-damage causing vomit spray like a fire extinguisher.

5. Bone Shard - Single target ranged brute damage causing shard of bone to shoot into people.

6. Tentacle - Impale a grabbed person for a lengthy stun and chunky damage. The stun is cancelled if either of you move. Good to grab someone and eat assimilate them. Probably a higher tier ability?

7. Explosive Escape - Immediately gib yourself, become a headspider, and all your limbs turn into critters immediately.

Passives - Regeneration, Claws, Aggressive Grabs, etc.

Weakness - Fire prevents regeneration and does extra damage. It can still be stunned. Very noisy and very loud. Will easily die to a group of angry staffies or a couple sec officers. It's not an I win card like shambler.

As the Changeling absorbs more people, ideally some of these abilities should be locked behind that. So it starts off weaker, but eventually gets stronger. I also feel like there should be more abilities than just these but I am currently drawing some blanks. It's scary and should help it pretty much win 1v1s still in practice, but ideally it will be a lot more engaging to be stung and eaten by a monster instead of sleeping and dead. As it eats more it'll unlock more abilities and become more of a threat, but I feel like the Changelings real strength should potentially be it's growing collective hivemind.

True Horror Form - Old fashioned shambler just like it is currently. Very strong, huge cost. Unga?

Doppelgangers - The result of being assimilated by the Changeling and inducted into it's hivemind. Doppelgangers look exactly the same as the crew member they used to be, but are subject to the same downsides of a human form as a normal Ling. They don't have any abilities besides talking on the hivemind, and a single transform ability. They also have lower health, if they enter crit they automatically transform.
     Doppelgangers transformed look identical to the Lings assimilation form - but are not as robust, obviously. They are also incapable of transforming back into humans. In an ideal situation, this will cause a lot more paranoia as the Lings assimilate and spread into different departments, and certain former friends burst into horrifying flesh monsters. Not very strong, but a perfect distraction and minion for the Ling, especially with multiple ones. They are incapable of regenerative stasis, but do slowly heal while in monster form.
    After dying, they are shunted back into their host lings body to potentially be given a limb critter. Perhaps they could also swap around to other doppelgangers? Should doppelgangers be able to create limb critters as well? Hrm?


More Fun Ideas:

1. Ingesting Changeling blood should start to give you some creepy effects and a disease. Allowing Lings to see you through walls, some tox damage, creepy messages, and testing positive on blood tests. Escaping an assimilation half-way through should also infect you with this. Lings can poison people with their own blood!

2. More sound effects, rip some of the screams from The Thing. They'll be meaty and creepy.

3. More ways to acquire dna points besides completely murdering people. Partial DNA point gain if you don't finish an assimilation? Eating dismembered limbs and organs?


Epilogue/Rambling: I realize a lot of this HEAVILY buffs ling in certain manners of speaking, and that it may not be perfectly balanced - and that a lot of this is open to change! My ideas aren't perfect, and i'm really looking for feedback. A few ideas I had that have been bouncing in my brain for a while - yes, it does buff Changelings, but what if Changelings were it's own mode along the lines of Revolution, Blob, or Nukies? The Hivemind entity of the Lings is assimilating the station and turning it into fleshy invasion of the bodysnatchers, hrm? In that case you could take it even further and perhaps have the coccoons spread a sorta infestation around it?

     Or perhaps parts of it should be nerfed to fit into the more normal round types from occuring, abilities shifted about, so on. I'm not sure. Also the abilities should probably be locked into a certain amount of people assimilated before you can use them much like Vampire perhaps? Or maybe active members of your collective hivemind?

     Either way, the ideal result from all of this is that Changeling rounds will feel like their own distinct type of threat instead of a normal man that makes you sleep. Crew should ideally run into the Ling itself a few times, but are unable to pin down who it exactly is, they may find hatched chrysalis's in maintenance as the station slowly becomes darker, more covered in goo. They may test random people and think they found the ling - but no, it was just another minion of it. Perhaps you find a maintenance room with a lot of blood and a little "Hive" of kidnapped crewmembers being transformed?

    This idea is very malleable, and i'm not 100% married to it being implimented exactly as written. Consider this a very rough draft. I'm sure a developer actually experienced in balance can weigh in, probably on why none of this will work. Either way I think we can agree not much is lost with current Changeling. Everything it can do besides a few creepy things and weak critters is the same that Traitors can do. Thanks for reading. Critique welcome.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

And interesting idea I've seen on Discord linked with this is adding a "building" aspect to ling similar to xenos on other servers, but meaty and with units that can pretend to be crew. Giving it more of a "spreading tumor" feel.

[Wisecrack34]

(Unimportant Shpiel Start)
I have been very harsh against lings in the past, I've said a lot of mean things about how they play both AS a ling and against one. I think they're far too "out of the crew's view", too much stealth with a reveal at the end. I think a traitor, whether they're going loud or are being stealthy, should attempt to bring entertainment to the rest of the crew in some way, shape or form.

That being said, I have had ONE changeling round that I still remember fondly, I was the RD and for most of the round was just fucking about, doing my thing, until late into the round when the changeling had amassed 3/4ths of the crew as limbspiders, had raided the armory and while they were hunting the few of us left, we didn't even know which of the few crew left they could be.
More people fell in the dark, not to be seen again. With how powerful the ling was, we were forced to stalk the maintenance tunnels, in fear of discovery, slowly finding makeshift weapons and implements to take them on with, until I had a moment of detective-like genious where I figured out who it was.
The shuttle was on it's way and I made my last stand fairly far away from it, as a distraction. I drank some BJD and brandished my armaments, finally confronting them in person but with an unexpected issue, one of the other survivors had come to help. I was forced to be as robust as my shaky, unskilled hands could be, managing to hold off their assault through quick bullet dodging and actually getting a use out of that one Matrix gene for the only time ever, holding them off long enough to get my comrade to rally the survivors and escape, leaving the changling on the station with me, beaten up from the fight against 3 legs and a ling and in crit. I figured I was fucked at that point and and decided to allow myself to succumb to their grasp with one final plot twist.

I had bought a Macrobomb Implant.

I was a traitor with the sole (tracked) task of dying a glorious death. And that I did.

This is a fond memory for me and is one of my best rounds ever in general, the dead crewmates had gotten to play again as limbs and the ling's use of actions and words made for an INCREDIBLY scary round, lights being smashed, lies being sown, etc.

(Unimportant Shpiel End)

This suggestion reminds me of that round, the way it's geared towards the dead not getting an early eviction notice, sowing fear into players and building suspense. I am 100% in support of some sort of implementation of this idea and haven't really seen any issues with it as is, but I am not good at balancing and would love to see this developed (And hopefully not forgotten).

I'd suggest keeping the same player to their own body, self antagging is an issue but I feel it could be resolved by making the returned unable to use items in-hand or some other such action).

[AberrantQuerist]

This is a really interesting set of ideas.
I think the assimilation form should still show clothing as to give some hints of the previous identity. Not just to be a glorified gas mask, but just to give some sense of origin. I think that'd be a bit more fair.
I definitely do think that while Changeling currently gives off The Thing vibes, it doesn't cause as much fear as it should. I absolutely would support a rework such as this.
And yeah, it totally should be its own gamemode. Maybe have two versions, the old one and this one; The old being used in mixed and the new its own version?

[Katzen]

Good post. At the moment lings barely use horror form unless shit really hits the fan or they are on the shuttle. Like you say they act more like a traitor with super powers, built in sleepy pen and free disguises. There isn't really a transforming flesh monster situation going on until they panic or feel like going totally loud.

Really fond of the Doppelgangers idea! A big part of The Thing was normal people bursting open into monsters and trying to kill you. This would be a lot more fun for the ling victims rather than the current hivemind that is underused. If dead players get to do their own mini ling adventures as doppelgangers and also have more opportunity to be limb critters I think it would go down well. Could be overpowered if the ling can build up 4-6 stealthy traitors sabotaging the station?

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

If we can handle the assload of converted antags on rev we can handle 4-6 lings.

[Chayot]

That's it wisecrack, that makes it fun. Not knowing who is who and being surrounded by (visible) enemies on all sides, building uneasy alliances and makeshift weaponry. SEC & Command goes first, then the crew must fend for themselves. Makes for a great story.
Of all things, a traitor having to work with crew to fight the lings, THAT was a good story.
(Along with crew being able to come back and still play even after falling victim to ling).

DJ. Revs don't compare, we can easily implant them and return them to station's side.
THRALLS would be closer, and no we can't handle them well. Crew can barely fight off "human" foes.

I know y'all've been talking lots about the lings, it shows, these are fine ideas.
Especially love the theming, the cocoons--tell tale signs that a terrible thing has occurred and about to befall the station.
All of this would probably take eons to code & sprite, not even Flockmind is finished.

[TheMaskedMan2]

The balance with a potential overload of assimilated people could be a few solutions -

1. The act of Ling'ing being slightly more loud means people won't be eaten as much.
2. The fact that doppelgangers are weaker than normal humans could be taken to a higher extreme - they wouldn't be great at a ton of sabotage, and they'd be on a timer before turning into a monster that is not exactly well versed in tools.
3. We can change the Assimilation mechanic from being a passive that happens to anyone eaten into a DNA cost that requires you to return to your husked crime scene and inject a member of your hivemind into it.

A few different ways to keep the concept alive - as well I'd argue they should be extremely weak to fire, doppelgangers in particular, I'm thinking their real strength would be element of surprise? Ideally it would be less about single beasts solo'ing people and more causing a bit of chaos before its burned to death. The built in timer and clock to them means they can't hide forever.

ALSO! As for the mentionings of "Eons to code and sprite" - I fully 100% agree. This is an entire rework, and it's probably pretty ambitious. Even so, I do think it's a nice idea to put out there, and perhaps someone will be inspired to work on it? Honestly, Vampire also used to be pretty mediocre, and then someone paid a developer to revamp it. Developers are volunteers and mostly do this for free, and paying for an improvement to the game would be well worth it in my opinion.

Of course it would need to be refined more, balanced, and I really want to see what the general community thinks of the idea. I do know some people like Ling as it currently is - and while I would agree that current ling is definitely "Functional", I just don't think it's very fun or at it's full potential.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I have no shame in bumping this anymore. I'd still appreciate more peoples feedback or even ideas. Ideally i'd like this to partially turn into a conversation of lots of peoples ideas for lings. Personally after sitting on this for a while I have a few other little ideas.

Honestly I am leaning more towards husks still being rooted but it just being another ability to inject someone in your hivemind into it instead of a simple passive. I do still like husks being rooted to the ground though and staining the area with blood - but after someone is morphed into a minion ling obviously it could permanently stain and spook the area with like, flesh and goo. Also the Ling having to return to the scene of the crime would hopefully make it more engaging, and so as Lings eat more - the station essentially turns into more and more of a horror movie.

And hivemind members without proper bodies could look through other peoples minds and they could also create critters! Not that critters are that strong anyways.

ALSO WITH SPOOKTOBER HAPPENING.

NO BETTER TIME TO SPEAK ABOUT HORROR MOVIE ANTAGS AM I RIGHT BUDS?

To be honest though I am curious if anyone else has ling ideas at all.

[Mouse]

Most of my ling ideas are more along the lines of gimmicks I'd run if I had ling turned on, but a few I've had that aren't are generally along the lines of "cloning yourself into a ling body or giving yourself a shambler arm should be a very, very bad idea". I'm not sure how difficult mechanically it'd be to have doing that eventually resurrect the original ling, but if it's doable I think it would be an interesting change.

I once replaced my arm with a shambler tendril as HoS in response to extreme shittery/nerdery and holy hell that was overpowered.

[Kira]

I really really like some of the ideas in this. I agree that good lings are annoying cause you never even know there is one until the end, it makes for boring rounds.

I think they should definitely effect more things, whether it’s leaving behind messes or having small freakouts as one attacks before escaping. I’m not too sure about everyone being eaten turning into minions, though. If it’s slightly louder but anonymous won’t they die super quick?

Maybe it’s better to make husks fused to the floor and you come back later. Though balance aside I like the idea of ling turning into this weird fleshy hivemind infesting the crew and turning it into a horror. More of a team effort with a single leader?

Could be more like the dedicated round types but I don’t know.

Even if most of this doesn’t get in I really like the idea of the ling always having a transform available, and it not being the same as a normal human. I’d love for that to get in at least. Less taser man, more spooky tentacles muting and dragging you off.

tl:dr - Definitely add some of this it’s cool.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I'm going to be selfish and I am going to bump this because I think that there is still valuable discussion to be had regarding Lings and I was reminded over it due to some very particular rounds lately, and maybe some new eyes will see and take an interest in this.

Lately i've been seeing a lot more "ultra" stealth Lings and they really aren't fun at all to deal with, you have the entirety of Security and other regulars running around desperately trying to find the ling until eventually the shuttle comes and theres a shambler on the shuttle.

In some rarer other situations sometimes you get a very robust player as a Ling and they just run around with the tendril arm and beat the absolute hell out of everyone - which can be a bit entertaining but in it's own way it still a little bit bland at times.

Critters are still relatively useless and a waste of dna points and time. They suffer from the same issues antag critters have where they don't benefit from a crit state like humans, can't really heal themselves, and are just kind of meh. Once again I am going to say that it would be a much more engaging hivemind for Ling rounds to be more of a spreading infestation of monsters instead of one single person.

Double down on the paranoia and disguise-causing. There's only so much a single person can do. Argurably all my ideas up the intensity of Ling rounds to more of a major threat, but eh, I still think it's fun. Anyways i'm going to go make a revamp document of ideas and post it later. Still curious what anyone else has opinions on maybe implimenting even some of these ideas?

[Drewmajor11]

I can add, a decent chem mix could be, haloperidol, capulettium+ and either normal capulettium(Like we have on RP) Or Lithium which seems to cause confused movement, haloperidol would also give brain damage which would add to some confused movement eventually, as well as hootiginium could play that role. Essentially, haloperidol messes with stamina and movement a bit, capulettium+ Removes the ability to talk. Lithium/Hootiginium would mess with movement/cause more brain damage which could also mess with movement.

---

Or even just a small amount of neurotoxin left in to mess with movement.

[CommaIndividual]

I gotta, I absolutely love this idea for changes.

[rando212]

I really like this whole idea for a revamp but one big thing from it is that something needs to be done to the limb critters there a complete waste of points and not only that but they can make it very obvious that a ling is around and if the player is going for stealth there is 0 reason to make limbs other than the hivemind getting mad cause they have to sit and watch a player like a ghost for 40 mins with almost no interaction.