remove mechanic job and merge with engineering

[Adhara In Space]

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/1304
im just gonna copy paste what i said in the pr, comment here or somewhere else! the existence of this pr doesnt mean its guaranteed to go in, just that it has the ability to. 

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disables mechanic as a job you can join / latejoin / set preferences for. adds mechanic access to engineers by default, and moves mechanic objectives to engineers as well. moves mechanic traitor items to engineer. increases engineer slots by 1 across maps. leaves some admin stuff re: mechanics in, because im afraid to touch that tbh. (might be for debugging mechanics system, and ones abt lifting antag bans??)

also i tested it and it seems like it works.

this was discussed in discord a bit, and it seems like a good idea. the biggest comparison i can draw for this is between chemist and scientist, before the two were merged. i think that mechanics dont really have a lot to do, and one way to make the job less aimless and better with the station is to merge it with engineering. a lot of people have trouble getting mechanics to work with engineers, like, an engineer will patch the breach in cloning and refill the air, but then you end up waiting forever for the mechanic and end up just doing it yourself. this also solves the issue of engineers not having much to do after starting the engine, because then they can work on mech stuff and other station improvements. and engineers can actually set up ptl teleporters now without having to wait for mechanics to stop loafing or building another suicide booth.

of course im open to other suggestions too.

[GORE]

Just curiously asking.

How many slots are there currently for Engineers AND for Mechanics?

[Adhara In Space]

Just curiously asking.

How many slots are there currently for Engineers AND for Mechanics?

combined, its 8. but 8 engineers seems a bit extreme

[GORE]

Just asking because.....when removing the Mechanics and merging them,...
And just adding one slot to Engineers,...

Will we be stuck with like 5 Engineers?

On late-night High-Pop rounds it is hard to find a single slot left open as it is when late-joining.

[Adhara In Space]

oh thats a valid concern, luckily thqt numbers easy to change. do engineer and mechanic both get filled up pretty often?

[GORE]

Why not just merge your PR and see how it goes?

Best way to find out is to observe what happens after the change.

[Erev]

I'd prefer keeping the engineer and mechanic roles separate but engineering DOES need more options for after they've got the engine up and running.

I also personally believe that Science should be split up between geneticists (under MD already which is fine), physical scientists which focus on chem and toxins (also give toxins non-traitor usefulness please), and xenoarchaeologists which focus on artifacts and telescience.

[GORE]

Erev?

Engineering has the main goal to keep the station from falling apart. That is quite a task.

[Erev]

Erev?

Engineering has the main goal to keep the station from falling apart. That is quite a task.

I am well aware. And yet they lack shenanigans to get up to when the station isn't all explodey. You can only build a bar in escape so many times.

[GORE]

That is why you build some tanning beds and ask people to get free colorful skin cancer.

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XD

Nah - but I get ya'point.
Engineering needs more stuff do with extra power.

I think Oshan offers the ability to speed up ALL conveyor belts with extra power - which is neat...stuff like that, you know?

A conveyor belt printer would also be great.

[Technature]

Engineering and Mechanics have nothing to do because they don't look for anything to do.

Getting Engineers to fix the station after it's gone to shit is harder than pulling your own teeth out with your bare fingers. I can speak from rounds upon rounds of CE (and non-engineer) experience that "If it is to be, it is up to me" is the #1 saying of station fixing.

Mechanics, once they get the clone scanning done (which should be done first thing every round I swear to fucking god) have a lot of things they can do, including installing teleporters, setting up manual or automated defenses, making machines that scam people out of money for no reason, setting up a Prisoners Dilemma machine, making buttons that make music noises...

I find it kind of unfair that people don't want to do what the jobs are expected to do and then complain that they have nothing to do.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

>breach happens
>nobody fixes it because all of engineering is fucking around with loafs or teleporters or whatever
>all of medbay is now deader than usual

But yeah, that's one of the many cons to this idea. With the only pro I've seen so far being "it would give engineers more to do". Which this isn't really a good solution too, either. Like it's just pinning something that already exists onto engineer, instead of giving them their own things to do. The real problem is probably that Goonstation has very simplistic engineering, this would be a highly indirect solution to that that would cause 15 more problems.

[Superlagg]

>breach happens
>nobody fixes it because all of engineering is fucking around with loafs or teleporters or whatever
>all of medbay is now deader than usual

But yeah, that's one of the many cons to this idea. With the only pro I've seen so far being "it would give engineers more to do". Which this isn't really a good solution too, either. Like it's just pinning something that already exists onto engineer, instead of giving them their own things to do. The real problem is probably that Goonstation has very simplistic engineering, this would be a highly indirect solution to that that would cause 15 more problems.

That all happens already, most of the time its a pissy staff assistant or dead robot that fixes holes in things while all of engineering is off staring at a laser.

I think this is less of giving engineering more things to do, and more giving mechanics *useful* things to do. Mechanics have loads of things they can do, but for the most part they're just creative ways to get the crew to murder them. This'd give mechanics something useful to do when they don't feel like pissing off the crew.

[Adhara In Space]

I'd prefer keeping the engineer and mechanic roles separate but engineering DOES need more options for after they've got the engine up and running.

I also personally believe that Science should be split up between geneticists (under MD already which is fine), physical scientists which focus on chem and toxins (also give toxins non-traitor usefulness please), and xenoarchaeologists which focus on artifacts and telescience.

i agree with them needing more to do, but i think that allowing them to do the full job of repairing/replacing would be enough to keep them occupied. and if they needed more, they could go and build a classic mechcomp contraption (like a loafer, or a pipe loop, or a loafer...) or screw around with the reukinginer (idk how to spell) kit stuff. 

That is why you build some tanning beds and ask people to get free colorful skin cancer.

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XD

Nah - but I get ya'point.
Engineering needs more stuff do with extra power.

I think Oshan offers the ability to speed up ALL conveyor belts with extra power - which is neat...stuff like that, you know?

A conveyor belt printer would also be great.

i think engineering could use more to do besides run the engine and build/fix stuff too, but idk what. maybe you could make an ideas thread about stuff engineering could do with extra power? id be interested in that. 

Engineering and Mechanics have nothing to do because they don't look for anything to do.

Getting Engineers to fix the station after it's gone to shit is harder than pulling your own teeth out with your bare fingers.  I can speak from rounds upon rounds of CE (and non-engineer) experience that "If it is to be, it is up to me" is the #1 saying of station fixing.

Mechanics, once they get the clone scanning done (which should be done first thing every round I swear to fucking god) have a lot of things they can do, including installing teleporters, setting up manual or automated defenses, making machines that scam people out of money for no reason, setting up a Prisoners Dilemma machine, making buttons that make music noises...

I find it kind of unfair that people don't want to do what the jobs are expected to do and then complain that they have nothing to do.

yea i get that, apathy can be a really big issue. what im hoping is to mitigate that a bit by making eng and mech the same people, so its not relying on 1 group to go and force another group which usually identifies as seperate to do something. like, talking about pulling teeth trying to get engineers to fix stuff, try getting a mechanic to stop building the 7th suicide booth in 7 rounds and just print the cloner backups in cloning. hopefully by kinda merging them, itll give them more of a sense of responsibility for that, and if that fails then the other engineers can make them do it easier, i think. since the engineer job comes with more of a sense of duty or whatever than mechanic, which is usually viewed as just assistant in blue/yellow.

>breach happens
>nobody fixes it because all of engineering is fucking around with loafs or teleporters or whatever
>all of medbay is now deader than usual

But yeah, that's one of the many cons to this idea. With the only pro I've seen so far being "it would give engineers more to do". Which this isn't really a good solution too, either. Like it's just pinning something that already exists onto engineer, instead of giving them their own things to do. The real problem is probably that Goonstation has very simplistic engineering, this would be a highly indirect solution to that that would cause 15 more problems.

well considering the pop that we normally sit at, i dont think 6-8 engineers could all go and mess around with mechcomp and mech stuff. theres just not enough space, like, try fitting all the scientists into the chemlab. it just doesnt happen, you know? and i agree that apathy is an issue, like i mentioned above. but i think that it isnt indirect at all. and the only issue isnt bored engineers. i think itll make mechanics more fixing stuff oriented, because the role of engineer is different from mechanics. but who knows? im hoping that at least we can try this out, and see how it plays out. also, im not removing like, every trace of mechanics. their stuff still exists, its just you cant join specifically as a mechanic anymore.

[vampirate]

Mechanics and engineers serve broadly different functions, and generally there is an expectation of engineers that they start the engine. Mechanics can just jump to. On top of that, given the limited resources (initially) of the mechanics job to make things mechanics being limited serves a dual purpose. While well meant, I suspect this would end up causing more stress for mechanics players. It wouldn't really add any fun, and would detract from it.