remove flashbang rushing

[Drago156]

or you know we could just nerf flashbangs into the ground, that always seems to be the solution to fixing things in the last two years and flashbangs are one of the few things I think are actually just stupid in power.

[Wisecrack34]

I think sunglasses shouldn't protect against flashes, they should be a fashion statement, not an item for power gaming. Sec glasses should keep the protection but I think at the very minimum sunglasses should only offer slight protection.

[Dickles]

I don't think flashbangs should be able to stun, but I wouldn't mind if their disorientation is buffed as a trade-off. More messed up movement and a chance to drop items would be good I think. Maybe some stamina damage but it's capped?

Flashbang rushing is only good because it stuns someone without having to click them and there's nothing they can do to avoid it. If the stun was gone I think it would be fine.

[Katzen]

Yeah you probably could just nerf them in general. It should be something to assist, most grenades are not very effective.

[gleb09]

I think blowing your arms off would be too much for innocent players fumbling flashbangs but I think you would be able to use the same kind of logic to stun someone holding them despite the protection.

I think new players experiencing accidents like that is great. It's memorable and not game ruining enough to be unfun. It also encourages going to the medbay to get fixed up.

[Frank_Stein]

I don't think flashbangs should be able to stun, but I wouldn't mind if their disorientation is buffed as a trade-off. More messed up movement and a chance to drop items would be good I think. Maybe some stamina damage but it's capped?

Flashbang rushing is only good because it stuns someone without having to click them and there's nothing they can do to avoid it. If the stun was gone I think it would be fine.

I would Love a much longer vison obscuring and noise muting. I think the flashbang works best advantage wise as something that gives the advantage of clearer info on screen to the person using it. I think maybe save any item dropping or stumbled movements for the people closest to the explosion.

This makes it so someone could still have adequate eye and ear protection and negate that with this tactic, but they would suffer the absolute worst of the stumble and item drop baring wearing the bomb suit that already slows you down considerably.

Sec offers have 3 other options that will stun, they don't need a grenade that does that. Save crowd stunning grenades to armory items

[TDHooligan]

flashbangs being made to blow off arms might be overkill lore wise but at the same time it's such a rare use case it would probably only end up shutting down this strategy and very rarely an incompetent sec officer.

the point-blank flashbang nerf has been mentioned by an admin a long time ago IIRC, and i think it's just fallen through owing to nobody coding it

as for nerfing flashbangs in general - flashbangs take up a lot of space that can be used for other valuable tools (meds, cuffs, guns) and two slots solely for one down outside of these scenarios is a pretty big investment. especially considering people can just run from them. if you're armed to the teeth and yet find yourself locked in a room, any sec that is prepared to take two flashbangs deserves the win IMO, not because the criminal loses, but because i think prepared sec having a guaranteed win something is generally less negative for the game (as sec can just pardon folk, while traitors will just murder and go on)

[Sundance]

For all the people who says that I want to nerf flashbangs or that flashbangs in their current form need to be nerfed - you're all missing the point. 

Removing arms, reducing effectiveness of flashbangs: hell naw.  
Removing arms in particular is an absolutely useless nerf because then the meta to circumvent this is to simply drop the grenade. Lol 

Flashbangs are great and it's extremely satisfying to land one properly in a fight. They've been a bread and butter tool for secoffs since the days of mushroom. 

The thing about flashbangs is they're a cruel mistress, the caveat is that it can (and will) backfire on you AND your fellow secoffs if you use it incorrectly. 

The key issue is when combined with earmuffs which offer 100% ear protection is that this removes this entire caveat, allowing you to point blank players.  

So the issue is with earmuffs. So we nerf earmuffs, reducing their ear protection. 

But not completely. I don't want to remove the infamous "grenade cop" meta, I just don't want it to be strat that can be used to cheese fights, it should just make flashbang usage safer but not 100% guaranteed. 

Tl;dr: flashbang good, earmuffs bad.

[Leeanei]

Flashbangs blowing off arms just makes negative new player experience because they fumbled their throw. Harm baton is already confusing enough for new players and it plainly upsets people.

Earmuff nerf would be okay but wouldn't stop the notorious deaf-off. My suggestion would be moving some of the flashbang's stamina damage off of eye/ear protection and just make it a part stamina aoe or something if that's even possible. That way people take stamina damage to grenade cop, and if they sprinted they'll get knocked down for as long as the people they flashbanged, possibly longer.

[gleb09]

Flashbangs blowing off arms just makes negative new player experience because they fumbled their throw. Harm baton is already confusing enough for new players and it plainly upsets people.

Wouldn't the root cause be new players playing Sec? Blowing off arms is probably too much but isn't a major experience of this game learning it's quirks and exploring?

[KikiMofo]

If someone is going to use flashbangs in hand to fight someone I doubt nerfing earmuffs will stop them. they are going to rush flashbang anyway
Also new players shouldnt be playing sec or using flashbangs in the first place. I feel no pity towards them getting a negative experience doing something they shouldnt have been doing in the first place.

[Mouse]

Flashbangs blowing off arms just makes negative new player experience because they fumbled their throw. Harm baton is already confusing enough for new players and it plainly upsets people.

If a security officer has a charged stun baton, they shouldn't be on harm intent in the first place.  Similarly, if a security officer is in a situation in which they don't immediately throw an armed grenade or at least drop it due to a stun or disarm, then they shouldn't have armed the grenade in the first place.

Given how badly horrible security can ruin everyone's round, I'm fine with mechanical methods of punishing security for doing things they obviously shouldn't be doing.  Every so often I won't be paying as much attention as I should and it'll fuck me over (although the only times I actually recall setting off a grenade of any kind in my hand is when I'm a stealth nukie, have stolen a biosuit, and want to sarin the place without a chat message telling people who scroll back who I am), but hey.  That's on me.

[Drago156]

Ok I think it should be noted who the primary users of flashbangs are, BECAUSE IT'S MOST CERTAINLY NOT SECURITY, I rarely see a security officer use flashbangs like ever, but instead I see them more oftenly used by shitters or antags with lower access levels like staffies and clowns, and I often see them just yeet the armed flashbang and move out of range of the effects. Nerfing flashbang protection does actually nothing to this, and doesn't solve this problem at all, and you would be dead wrong to think current flashbang effects aren't overpowered in the current meta. Also to rebuttal storage space issues, flashbangs are small items, meaning they can be stored in boxes and virtually any container, and they often already come in a box in sets of 6, and officers probably wouldn't have all of their pocket and backpack spaces filled considering they get both the sec belt and pouch to hold things.

[Leeanei]

Everyone security player was new at security once. It doesn't really matter how many rounds they've played, either, because most people won't have a reason to touch dangerous grenades until they try security. The syndie grenade packs aren't purchased all that often. We shouldn't make an underplayed role even worse for people to pick up. A lot of the 'shitsec' people also aren't actually all that new. They know what they are doing, and punishing new security over flashbang fuckups isn't gunna affect shitsec.

[Carbadox]

I think halving the effects of the confused walking and such would probably be a good change IMO.

Flashbangs most certainly have a place for Sec Officers. They can help level the playing field in case of multple opponents if you're on your own thanks to a combination of element of suprise + baking the grenade + AoE effect. So I wouldnt discount them that hard. Sure they get abused by non-sec as well but that happens constantly, like with the armoury equipment.