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Add nuclear charges to more maps.
#1
This is more an idea I'd like to spitball and see what you guys think.

So, 2 maps have nuclear charges: Manta and Horizon. I should also note that they are rarely ever detonated due to how isolated they are and how well protected they are. Both charges are disconnected from the main grid and require some time and effort in a high-security, well-protected area to wire up. Manta's is buried deep in the armory, whereas Horizon's is right next to the AI in its satellite, with the satellite having multiple grids that require connection and the charge requiring a connection to the subgrid.

As an AI main, I say this with full bias: I would LOVE to have nuclear charges on more maps, either in the Armory, AI chamber, Computer core, or even it's own dedicated room. I think that, for a charge to be added to a map, a few prerequisites must be met:

1) It must be difficult for your average traitor to access. The AI Core and Armory are excellent examples, with the former being much harder as the AI is typically very aware of their surroundings.

2) It must be difficult to wire to the main grid. Preferably, the nearest wire should be on a subgrid that is isolated from the Computer Core, much like on Horizon.

3) It should not be close to the Computer Core. Nukes require a constant connection to the computer core to continue their timer, but this also means they can be disarmed at any time. It should not be practically feasible to cut off access from the rest of the grid but maintain the connection between the Mainframe and Nuclear charge. Cogmap1 is a great example of how abusable this. If the charge were in the Computer Core or connected to the wire in the AI core, you could easily cut the cables in space just South of the Core to isolate the Core and Nuke together, making it impossible to defuse without entering the Computer Core, as every DWAINE terminal on the station would be entirely disconnected from the Mainframe. 

4) The Nuclear Charge needs to be changed mechanically. It should very much so be easier to defuse, either without needing SU to disable it, and/or being able to just beat the shit out of it to destroy it, or just extending the minimum timer to a few minutes. Additionally, detonation should automatically call the shuttle, for hopefully obvious reasons.


Here's a breakdown of the current in-rotation maps and how I think a charge would work out in them:


Kondaru - The AI core is well isolated with low foot traffic due to the upload being entirely separate from it. The AI chamber is rather large, and subsequently has lots of room to put a charge into. The Armory is also another excellent candidate, as it has both interior and exterior turrets to defend itself, and requires a HoS ID to disable.

Cogmap2 - The AI core is similarly well isolated, though it is more frequently traveled to as the Upload is adjacent to it. However, as it is in a separate chamber blocked by R-Walls and an airlock with a bunch of turrets, this should be just fine. The Armory is another potential location as it is similarly well reinforced, though it is easier to break in undetected.

Cogmap1 - There isn't as much room for a charge. Additionally, this map may not be as great of a candidate, as the Computer Core is dangerously close to the AI Core (it is far easier to make it nearly impossible to disarm the nuke). The Armory isn't as great of a spot either owing to how notoriously easy it is to break into, and the presence of an existing PNET connection.

Oshan - Honestly, this isn't a great map either, but definitely more viable than Cog1. The AI chamber is probably the best place to put it, though the high foot traffic the surrounding area is a downside. The Armory isn't as great as it's notoriously small and easy to bust into from maintenance, considering how it's just 1 R-Wall away.

Atlas - No. Just... no. A nuclear charge would literally wipe out the entire station and is far too dangerous. Though, the fact that it's rarely used might be a good off-set, and is typically only used on GoonRP, so it might not be a bad idea.


Overall, I think that it's 100% worth considering adding nuclear charges to more maps.

and thus concludes my essay on why I should be able to bomb the station more often as a rogue nerdAI
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#2
It'd be neat if you could set the timer yourself too. Make the degree to which it does damage based on the time it charges.
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#3
(06-17-2020, 10:29 AM)vampirate Wrote: It'd be neat if you could set the timer yourself too.  Make the degree to which it does damage based on the time it charges.

You can configure the timer. The minimum is 30 seconds, and I forget how long the maximum is, if there even is one. Due to weird coding and BYOND the timer actually lasts like twice as long as what you put in, for some reason.

Would be neat if the explosive force was determined by the timer set, though!
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#4
They're rarely detonated because (coupled with the knowledge barrier that comes with this) the nuclear charge on Manta requires you to scan and rebuild it (since it lacks a data terminal, and building one on top of it doesn't work last I checked). Horizon is very rarely played, and I would guess not many players even know where the nuclear charge is located. It's also in a sort of bad location so scanning the debris nuke is not only safer but also lets you pick the point of detonation.

I am not sure why you think the maps need this (especially since the debris nuke is so accessable). Three out of five maps you mentioned, you yourself deemed ill-suited for nuclear charges. And again, the debris nuke is still a thing.
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#5
This is less for traitor mechanics and more for rogue AIs or those who have subverted the AI.
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#6
(05-27-2020, 12:55 PM)CaptainBravo Wrote: Just wanted to make sure you read and understood the rules since I didn't get the chance to talk to you in-game. Lifted.

Rogue ai's pretty strong already, do they really need a nuclear option? Or do traitors really wanna have to write "don't nuke the station" into ever relaw
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#7
I disagree with removing the SU requirement but wouldn't mind if the minimum timer was upped from 30 seconds to 45 or 60.
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#8
I think the nuke charge should require the Nuke Auth disk to be inserted in it for it to be activated
to add a lil more challenge since it's as simple as spoofing some id's and can all be done within 5 mins.

Also upping minimum timer
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#9
I think that could be viable, but it removes the possibility of the AI hacking it to detonate it (though giving it the ability to slowly hack it might be a good idea, provided it gets rather noticeable the more it's hacked)

As an alternative: Have it be added only to GoonRP. It won't get abused nearly as much and could be a rather fun element to incorporate into a high-stakes round.
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#10
(06-17-2020, 08:35 AM)aft2001 Wrote: This is more an idea I'd like to spitball and see what you guys think.

So, 2 maps have nuclear charges: Manta and Horizon. I should also note that they are rarely ever detonated due to how isolated they are and how well protected they are. Both charges are disconnected from the main grid and require some time and effort in a high-security, well-protected area to wire up. Manta's is buried deep in the armory, whereas Horizon's is right next to the AI in its satellite, with the satellite having multiple grids that require connection and the charge requiring a connection to the subgrid.

As an AI main, I say this with full bias: I would LOVE to have nuclear charges on more maps, either in the Armory, AI chamber, Computer core, or even it's own dedicated room. I think that, for a charge to be added to a map, a few prerequisites must be met:

1) It must be difficult for your average traitor to access. The AI Core and Armory are excellent examples, with the former being much harder as the AI is typically very aware of their surroundings.

2) It must be difficult to wire to the main grid. Preferably, the nearest wire should be on a subgrid that is isolated from the Computer Core, much like on Horizon.

3) It should not be close to the Computer Core. Nukes require a constant connection to the computer core to continue their timer, but this also means they can be disarmed at any time. It should not be practically feasible to cut off access from the rest of the grid but maintain the connection between the Mainframe and Nuclear charge. Cogmap1 is a great example of how abusable this. If the charge were in the Computer Core or connected to the wire in the AI core, you could easily cut the cables in space just South of the Core to isolate the Core and Nuke together, making it impossible to defuse without entering the Computer Core, as every DWAINE terminal on the station would be entirely disconnected from the Mainframe. 

4) The Nuclear Charge needs to be changed mechanically. It should very much so be easier to defuse, either without needing SU to disable it, and/or being able to just beat the shit out of it to destroy it, or just extending the minimum timer to a few minutes. Additionally, detonation should automatically call the shuttle, for hopefully obvious reasons.


Here's a breakdown of the current in-rotation maps and how I think a charge would work out in them:


Kondaru - The AI core is well isolated with low foot traffic due to the upload being entirely separate from it. The AI chamber is rather large, and subsequently has lots of room to put a charge into. The Armory is also another excellent candidate, as it has both interior and exterior turrets to defend itself, and requires a HoS ID to disable.

Cogmap2 - The AI core is similarly well isolated, though it is more frequently traveled to as the Upload is adjacent to it. However, as it is in a separate chamber blocked by R-Walls and an airlock with a bunch of turrets, this should be just fine. The Armory is another potential location as it is similarly well reinforced, though it is easier to break in undetected.

Cogmap1 - There isn't as much room for a charge. Additionally, this map may not be as great of a candidate, as the Computer Core is dangerously close to the AI Core (it is far easier to make it nearly impossible to disarm the nuke). The Armory isn't as great of a spot either owing to how notoriously easy it is to break into, and the presence of an existing PNET connection.

Oshan - Honestly, this isn't a great map either, but definitely more viable than Cog1. The AI chamber is probably the best place to put it, though the high foot traffic the surrounding area is a downside. The Armory isn't as great as it's notoriously small and easy to bust into from maintenance, considering how it's just 1 R-Wall away.

Atlas - No. Just... no. A nuclear charge would literally wipe out the entire station and is far too dangerous. Though, the fact that it's rarely used might be a good off-set, and is typically only used on GoonRP, so it might not be a bad idea.


Overall, I think that it's 100% worth considering adding nuclear charges to more maps.

and thus concludes my essay on why I should be able to bomb the station more often as a rogue nerdAI

I agree on this one please make it become true!
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#11
(06-17-2020, 08:35 AM)aft2001 Wrote: and thus concludes my essay on why I should be able to bomb the station more often as a rogue nerdAI

This is exactly why i think this is a terrible idea in general. Heck no.

The nuke charge is the traitor engineer's big gun. Like the canbomb for the scientist. Both of them should be held as far away from any other job as possible. Especially away from borgs/AI.

Your ideas tailor the nuke charge from an engineer high-effort traitor tool to a more easy to use tool for AI's and less good to use tool for traitors. Which, in my opinion, is antithetical to their design.
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#12
I'll put in my thoughts but 1st.. Manta is in rotation again?
Must be classic only or I just miss the timing.

So I do like nuclear charges and there is basically one on each space map in Hemera.

So do I think they should be on each station? NO! Some stations lack the right spacing to have it be there. But most stations can hold it.

As for allowing the Nuke Disc to be used on them to activate them? YES! PLEASE! It gives a reason to go after the captain.

And that's pretty much it.
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#13
this thread is nearly four years old
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#14
(02-28-2024, 08:23 AM)Mouse Wrote: this thread is nearly four years old

God damnit, i got absolutely baited
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#15
(02-28-2024, 09:50 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote:
(02-28-2024, 08:23 AM)Mouse Wrote: this thread is nearly four years old

Got damnit, i got absolutely baited

So did I. I found it odd Manta was added. I didn't read the date!
I don't mind the bait :P
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