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Complaint Emily, Goon2, 22.5., 22.28 +2 GMT
#1
Admin: Emily
Server: Goon2
Date: 22.5.2020, 22.28 +2 GMT

Synopsis: Emily decided to make the nuke able to run around. Apparently they didn't know that it could run around at ghost speeds and did spawn NTSO after the fact when the nuke had +/- 3 minutes on the timer. However, the fact remains that the nuke was simply too fast to even be able to hit it with projectiles. The fact that it couldn't open doors etc. was a moot one since the station had been power sinked and any way that you entered to get to the nuke was a potential exit for it as well and as previously stated there was no way for anyone to catch up with it.

Add to this that almost all of the nuke team had been dealt with before this with only a single disguised nukie still apparently free, it just feels like more of fun for the admin in question and not fun for the overall crew as usually the admin gimmicks go.

Afterward Emily did state that admin gimmicks happen and we're not going to like all of them etc. but usually when they do happen outside of the 13th they have some recourse on the part of the crew. A nuke that runs around faster than bullets is not one that I consider to be in that camp. Even with the NTSO forces being respawned in there was just no way to catch it with everyone else having to be in space suits slowly chasing it around.

I don't know, this is the first complaint I've ever done, but this one really left a bad taste because there was no recourse on the part of the crew to this, despite Emily claiming that we could have still shot it. Trying to get a group of spread out NTSO to catch a nuke running at the speed of a ghost in the pitch black is a near impossibility without the fact that the nuke could run anywhere around the station regardless of its original arming spot.

Like it would have been fine if it didn't move so fast, but having it move faster than anybody could catch it or even shoot it was not fun. Maybe just stop moving once you noticed the move speed and have the nukies drag it around, anything but just running across the station at top speed.

I get that it was only a one round and only a syndie round, but things like this should be straightened with the new admins so that it doesn't get to be the new norm. I like admin gimmicks, but not like this.
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#2
You and had this conversation in OOC after the round, so I'm not entirely sure what you expect from this that you didn't get there.

It was just supposed to be a quick "Haha! Surprise!" moment for the crew. Basically, a funny "chase the chicken leg nuke around the station" thing. I ended up getting caught by the crew, twice, and nearly died, but both times this happened the syndicates bailed me out. From within the round, it seemed like everyone was having fun (deadchat was full of people laughing) and after the nukies killed everyone I made everyone NTSO so that they could have another go of it.

After the round was over we talked about it and you had some criticisms, which I acknowledged as best I could.

Admins do gimmicks. Sometimes that admin fucks up and it isn't as fun as it was supposed to be. Sorry.

Maybe I don't quite understand what the problem is, but this seemed like a perfectly normal situation where things don't go quite right, and not that big of a deal. I don't know what additional "recourse" you expected or wanted from me.
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#3
(05-22-2020, 03:24 PM)UrsulaMejor Wrote: You and had this conversation in OOC after the round, so I'm not entirely sure what you expect from this that you didn't get there.

It was just supposed to be a quick "Haha! Surprise!" moment for the crew. Basically, a funny "chase the chicken leg nuke around the station" thing. I ended up getting caught by the crew, twice, and nearly died, but both times this happened the syndicates bailed me out. From within the round, it seemed like everyone was having fun (deadchat was full of people laughing) and after the nukies killed everyone I made everyone NTSO so that they could have another go of it.

After the round was over we talked about it and you had some criticisms, which I acknowledged as best I could.

Admins do gimmicks. Sometimes that admin fucks up and it isn't as fun as it was supposed to be. Sorry.

Maybe I don't quite understand what the problem is, but this seemed like a perfectly normal situation where things don't go quite right, and not that big of a deal. I don't know what additional "recourse" you expected or wanted from me.

Maybe I'm more accustomed to the gimmicks of the older admins who know the ins and outs of what could happen with what they do, but it just felt really half baked at least from the inside. I was the captain that round and was probably one of the last crew members alive, having taken down two syndicates myself only to find the nuke speeding around the station with no option of coming on top even while chasing you with a csaber I stole from another syndie.

Like I completely acknowledge that sometimes things don't go the way you plan at first, but when they don't, you should reconsider if you should continue on that original, screwed up path in the first place. I didn't know anything about the deadchat because I was alive until the end of the round and to me it seemed like a pretty raw deal for the amusement of someone else, regardless of respawning people as NTSO with +\- 3 minutes remaining.

But yeah, no hard feelings and all, but if things go sideways with something you're doing, I'd just like some consideration as to if you should be continuing doing the thing that went sideways or maybe consider toning it down. Something like maybe stopping running around at the speed of a ghost would have been a reasonable recourse when you noticed the unintended effect?
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#4
I apologize for being snippy early in this thread:

Quote:You and had this conversation in OOC after the round, so I'm not entirely sure what you expect from this that you didn't get there.


After being shown the logs, I was pretty dismissive.

Quote:Maybe I'm more accustomed to the gimmicks of the older admins who know the ins and outs of what could happen with what they do, but it just felt really half baked at least from the inside.

The leg component was a beta feature added mere hours before I used it (the second time ever it was used in a real round, to my knowledge). Experience isn't really a factor here, because nobody really knew how it would work in a real round.

Quote:Like I completely acknowledge that sometimes things don't go the way you plan at first, but when they don't, you should reconsider if you should continue on that original, screwed up path in the first place.

(...)

But yeah, no hard feelings and all, but if things go sideways with something you're doing, I'd just like some consideration as to if you should be continuing doing the thing that went sideways or maybe consider toning it down. Something like maybe stopping running around at the speed of a ghost would have been a reasonable recourse when you noticed the unintended effect?

I agree with the sentiment here. That said, I don't think I would have come to the same conclusion as you. Simply stopping moving would, in my opinion, have been a super lame way for that round to end after how much investment the rest of the crew had both in watching the leggy nuke run around + chasing it. The crew DID catch me, twice, and both times I got away purely because a syndicate operative acted against them. I felt like the pacing was slightly off, but still within acceptable bounds for most players in attendance.

There are things, mechanically, that I'll probably do different next time we do a "Leggy-X" gimmick, such as using a human mob for the base movement instead of a ghost, maybe spawning nuke pinpointers for the crew, also. But I think that, for a round that was literally the first time this sort of gimmick has been attempted, it went fine.

Quote:I was the captain that round and was probably one of the last crew members alive, having taken down two syndicates myself only to find the nuke speeding around the station with no option of coming on top even while chasing you with a csaber I stole from another syndie.

(...)

I didn't know anything about the deadchat because I was alive until the end of the round and to me it seemed like a pretty raw deal for the amusement of someone else, regardless of respawning people as NTSO with +\- 3 minutes remaining.

From a more global perspective of the round, I don't agree that this was a "raw deal" with no option of coming on top, as the crew nearly won at two points, and at both of those the Leggy Nuke escaped entirely due to the efforts of a nuclear operative killing the 2+ crew members that had me cornered.

Time 1:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1...121401.png

Picture is a bit before it happened; a crew member stood in that doorway and called over the radio for someone to come kill me while I was trapped. A nuke op ran over and shot both of them dead.

Time 2:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1...122049.png

This one was a really tense moment. With 1 minute left on the timer, 3 NTSO corner me and one hits the fire alarm button to trap me in a tiny space and they just start lighting me up (note the damage on my sprite). I'm moments away from being shot to death when one of the NTSO reveals that they are a nuke op in disguise and kills the other two. "Yeehaw" indeed.

These were good moments, in my opinion. The round was worth continuing, even if it wasn't perfect, so that these moments could have happened. There were several other good moments throughout the round, and overall deadchat seemed to be enjoying what was happening.

I'm sorry you didn't have fun. Not every gimmick works for every person, and not every gimmick goes to plan. I'll keep the experiences you shared here in mind for future gimmicks. However, it is impossible for me to guarantee that you'll always find them fun. That's just the nature of the Game Master <-> Player relationship.
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#5
(05-22-2020, 05:03 PM)UrsulaMejor Wrote: I apologize for being snippy early in this thread:

Quote:You and had this conversation in OOC after the round, so I'm not entirely sure what you expect from this that you didn't get there.


After being shown the logs, I was pretty dismissive.

Quote:Maybe I'm more accustomed to the gimmicks of the older admins who know the ins and outs of what could happen with what they do, but it just felt really half baked at least from the inside.

The leg component was a beta feature added mere hours before I used it (the second time ever it was used in a real round, to my knowledge). Experience isn't really a factor here, because nobody really knew how it would work in a real round.

Quote:Like I completely acknowledge that sometimes things don't go the way you plan at first, but when they don't, you should reconsider if you should continue on that original, screwed up path in the first place.

(...)

But yeah, no hard feelings and all, but if things go sideways with something you're doing, I'd just like some consideration as to if you should be continuing doing the thing that went sideways or maybe consider toning it down. Something like maybe stopping running around at the speed of a ghost would have been a reasonable recourse when you noticed the unintended effect?

I agree with the sentiment here. That said, I don't think I would have come to the same conclusion as you. Simply stopping moving would, in my opinion, have been a super lame way for that round to end after how much investment the rest of the crew had both in watching the leggy nuke run around + chasing it. The crew DID catch me, twice, and both times I got away purely because a syndicate operative acted against them. I felt like the pacing was slightly off, but still within acceptable bounds for most players in attendance.

There are things, mechanically, that I'll probably do different next time we do a "Leggy-X" gimmick, such as using a human mob for the base movement instead of a ghost, maybe spawning nuke pinpointers for the crew, also. But I think that, for a round that was literally the first time this sort of gimmick has been attempted, it went fine.

Quote:I was the captain that round and was probably one of the last crew members alive, having taken down two syndicates myself only to find the nuke speeding around the station with no option of coming on top even while chasing you with a csaber I stole from another syndie.

(...)

I didn't know anything about the deadchat because I was alive until the end of the round and to me it seemed like a pretty raw deal for the amusement of someone else, regardless of respawning people as NTSO with +\- 3 minutes remaining.

From a more global perspective of the round, I don't agree that this was a "raw deal" with no option of coming on top, as the crew nearly won at two points, and at both of those the Leggy Nuke escaped entirely due to the efforts of a nuclear operative killing the 2+ crew members that had me cornered.

Time 1:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1...121401.png

Picture is a bit before it happened; a crew member stood in that doorway and called over the radio for someone to come kill me while I was trapped. A nuke op ran over and shot both of them dead.

Time 2:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1...122049.png

This one was a really tense moment. With 1 minute left on the timer, 3 NTSO corner me and one hits the fire alarm button to trap me in a tiny space and they just start lighting me up (note the damage on my sprite). I'm moments away from being shot to death when one of the NTSO reveals that they are a nuke op in disguise and kills the other two. "Yeehaw" indeed.

These were good moments, in my opinion. The round was worth continuing, even if it wasn't perfect, so that these moments could have happened. There were several other good moments throughout the round, and overall deadchat seemed to be enjoying what was happening.

I'm sorry you didn't have fun. Not every gimmick works for every person, and not every gimmick goes to plan. I'll keep the experiences you shared here in mind for future gimmicks. However, it is impossible for me to guarantee that you'll always find them fun. That's just the nature of the Game Master <-> Player relationship.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and yeah, to be honest I thought this was an old feature applied from the walking-AI gimmick with an unintended consequence and not a brand new one. And no worries, I didn't really take it as snippy or anything like that, I have pretty thick skin.

I do agree that specific instances you outlined seem pretty funny and maybe I would have had a different perspective had I been there to see them first hand, dead or alive, but being the one trying to run after the nuke wasn't all that fun especially in the darkness and with most of the station's doors already open due to the power sink. But it's water under the bridge anyway now and I respect your view on it as well.

I just wanted to bring this matter to the fore to discuss it since now the new admins are getting these fun powers and I felt like it was a worthwhile thing to discuss, I fully trust that you guys will keep coming up with more excellent stuff in the future and like I said, I almost always enjoy whatever shenanigans admins have in store, one of the reasons why I've stayed here for so long. Thanks again for taking the time to discuss this and sharing your perspective.
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