GOREs HoS Application
#1
Usual character name: Scrubbo Trashdigger
BYOND username: Emcee-Gore
Discord username (if you are on our discord): Goretimer Goth
Recommended by (if applicable):
Goon servers you play: Mostly Goon 2

Reason for application: Lately I have grown severly attached to be playing sec - going back to the start of playing on Goonstation it has been an absolute blast working together with other members of the security staff and other crewmembers to solve the problems the station is facing.

Security experience (300 word minimum):
I guess as time moved forward I put more and more time into playing sec - for one because truly interacting with other people is most of what security does and whether one keeps the stationeers safe or is dealing with rather miniscule crimers; one can be sure that it will be a fun time.
Teamwork is key in security and even if there is a task that could be done alone...more often than not staying together and working with others is the main way to go - solely for fun like the Adventure Zones.
Using advanced game-sense on how systems interact with each other can lead to some pretty intense situations especially when the stakes are high and a wizard is running rampant or the Changeling has just stung you. Sometimes managing between catching a crimer or dragging any civillian to safety amps up the intensity even more.
But aside from dealing with dangerous criminals - the small interactions really shine. Ticketing someone for disregarding their job or even going blatantly against it - quite like a littering janitor - might lead to little fun feuds between some players and the security team as a whole; not too uncommon is said relationship build between the Clown and security. Such relationships can form in positive or negative ways and crewmembers whom one sec-team-member has helped previously might feel the need to repay the debt and help out a dying security member. Overhaul I'd say a key point to playing security is to stop escalating situations and evaluate the real threats to the station - keeping the chaos alive but at bay.
One of the most memorable relationships I have found with a specific player called Damian was through security by patrolling together and keeping communication high. I'd love to expand that even further.
Thus here I go and apply for being granted HoS; and although I know that I can become pretty heated from time to time...I hope that it is recknognizable that I at least try to keep my emotions under control and not let them get the better of me. That is also why I think it is at utmost importance as a team of security to safe those crimers in your custody from death under all circumstances. Once a crewmember has been cuffed and cannot longer help themselves - it is the job of the security team or my job as a security team-member to save and support that crimer back to full livelyhood.

Answer two or more of the following:
  • What advice would you give to other sec players?
God please - if you see a Mime...give them the possibility to either emote stuff out...or uncuff them in a secluded enviroment so that they can use some utensils to write. So many times I have been plagued with experiencing security while being a Mime and was cuffed for more than five minutes without a real way to communicate and that was utterly frustrating. I beg you - even if you dislike Mimes...do not make them sit around.
Also as a second point; no crimer should just be trashed at roundstart - if they died - borg them or munkey-clone them or find some other way to let them play again...because sitting around for over half an hour is also not very fun.
  • What was one of your favorite security moments? (Either playing as a sec officer or interacting with one)
I'd guess that the recent occurence of the whole security team going on strike during a Blob round was utterly fun. Besides that there have been several instances of the dear HoS (HULK) going into the boxing ring and fighting it out. Boxing gimmicks are always a blast and a spectacle for all spectators.
  • What game improvements or changes do you think would benefit security players?
Just brainstorming here but what about...a flash alternative? Pepper-spray - enough to blind a player...make them cry their eyes out for a few seconds and receive the occasional stun - less reliable like the flash but overhaul effective over a longer duration. Something to just impede some crimers and not just knock them out flat after three or four uses on a player. Perhaps also add some minor burn Dmg to the eyes and a miniscule chance at causing an eye to go blind for longer or even permanently. Could lead to some security members dragging the crimer to medbay and - oof - there the crimer escapes through a waste disposal bin. Fun times.
  • Describe any differences in your playstyle when part of a full security team and when being the only security officer.
Biggest difference is of course the lack of communication with fellow security members - but at least one might feel inclined to communicate more with the AI or look for other supportive members of the staff. Honestly - just go with the flow.

Answer one or more of the following fun questions (because it's important for the HoS to be fun):
  • Write a poem to convey your thoughts on security/NanoTrasen/space/bees/anything related to SS13.
Whatever does Honk - deserves no Bonk
With greytiders we play Pong and this is because their ambitions are mostly wrong
Thus we decide to let the medic move along and help the crimers out which will bomb us before the end of thi...
  • What's a security gimmick that you've ran or wanted to run?
Well patrolling the station with a fellow officer is often quite fun - other than that inserting instruments into crimers for their misdeeds has been a blast from time to time. Not too long ago a security Rep managed to convince all of security to strike for a round unless specific demands were met - man that Blob round was something.
Personally what I would perhaps like to run as a HoS as a security gimmick would be along the lines of military checkpoints; assign a few officers to specifc places on the map and let them build some barricades to check all traffic coming through and making sure that this area is at least a safe space to stay alive in.
  • Draw a picture!
I honestly enjoy drawing...but frankly currently I am too tired to put some real effort into drawing so here goes my best attempt at some Clown ASCII art.

{]O()O[}
  |       |
   \ o  /   - HONK!

Previous bans (while this will not affect your application lying about it will):
Reckon it was two times. Once on one round on Oshan...cannot really remember why - but it was either 1 hour or 1 day ban (which got lifted a minute later for some reason - even contacted the Admin back then) .
The other more severe ban was while I was playing Clown at the start of this year and overdid it with the superlube...a bunch of peeps got hurt and that was not the best thing to have done.
#2
Usually when I remember a name it's something positive, but I see the name Scrubbo Trashdigger and something about it just...frustrates me.

I'm pretty sure I had a shit experience recently where you as a sec man did something I didn't like, but I don't remember what it is.

If I remember I'll say something, but uh, can't recommend based on it.
#3
Scrubbo actually shows up if you call for security for petty crimes, rather than just being antag. Meaning if a clown busts into medbay and is being a jerk while you're trying to heal people, he'll haul em out and diffuse the situation, even if there is an active antag hunt. I heavily respect that he understands hunting antags isn't his only job, and that he puts in the effort some don't. I think he'd be a positive influence on any sec on, and is worth giving the beret.

I can't speak to his nonsec activities activities though I know a few have had some rough run ins with him. Still, based on his security alone I'd plus one him
#4
Even with the issue personally recognised within the thread there were and/or are (I won't claim them as definitely still being present) temperamental issues, definitely visible not that very long ago (although not very recent either, though I haven't been as active in general monitoring recently) and occasional excessive scuffles with various players (often partially related to or involving the former point) which could conflict with what's expected of a HoS.

Although that'll be probably best reflected in people's actual experiences which the thread can conveniently supply.
#5
No. I know you've spent rounds harassing/attempting to arrest people you think are antags even long after they've been cleared. It's not just the focusing on people shown to be innocent that's a problem, it's that you focus on them so intently that you ignore actual threats to the station, even ones happening right in front of you.

That you mentioned working with a dude who got jobbanned from sec for murdering nonantags as a memorable, and apparently positive, experience for you also gives me pause.
#6
(05-12-2020, 06:08 AM)Mouse Wrote: No.  I know you've spent rounds harassing/attempting to arrest people you think are antags even long after they've been cleared.  It's not just the focusing on people shown to be innocent that's a problem, it's that you focus on them so intently that you ignore actual threats to the station, even ones happening right in front of you.

That you mentioned working with a dude who got jobbanned from sec for murdering nonantags as a memorable, and apparently positive, experience for you also gives me pause.

To be frank I have seen Damian get a bit exessive at times but lately he seemed to react more reasonable to some player responses.
That I am stating that I have had positive experiences with one player that is now deemed unfit for security does not imply that I am somehow to be put under the same scrutiny.

Now concering the first part - most of the time I am pretty eager to engage conversation in security chat but of course sometimes information just flies by and might be missed in a flood of text. Though I cannot remember any recent occurance of me harassing a single player for long after they have been cleared.
Ling test, bag check and if all is good let them go and wander off...I care to ask a suspicious person first if they would allow me a quick search through their stuff and if some incomplete information like a botanist near market bombed someplace is spread over the communication channels I am certainly caring enough to investigate.
Just be aware that I am distancing myself from the accusation that I am harassing anybody for a prolonged time without rhyme or reason. Once they suspect has been checked out or communicated with the unfolding situations can mostly be defused.

I try to be a fair member of security and also have stopped some Captains in recent times who were about to perma-brig certain individuals.

With that being said I thank you for your honest critique and input regarding my application. Cheers mate. smile
#7
I'll have to settle on a no for now - While your application is nice, I have never personally had an enjoyable experience with Scrubbo Trashdigger in game, particularly when you're on security/in a head role. As Technature mentioned, there have been several situations where it is just...frustrating to deal with you. I distinctly remember a detective round you had where you didn't communicate with me as the HoS, once, the entire round, as a nonantag. It was on Kondaru.

I remember checking up on you regularly and asking for updates on how things were going and whatnot, but I never received a response, let alone saw you on station at key points during the round involving antagonists and other such things. The lack of communication bothered me somewhat, as security is something that thrives off of teamwork and involvement. While the detective may not have the same duties as security officers, they are still expected to engage and respond and do their job.

There is another incident I can remember where you deliberately went out of your way to harass and follow another player around because you were upset at them during a round to the point where they ended up bringing it onto discord in the spaceman-discussion channel, mid round. This, to me, indicates a temperamental problem and lack of control, which is a key value that HoS players need to possess.

I'll be happy to rescind my statement and support this application after I see a bit of improvement in game, but for now it's a no.
#8
Yeah...I reckon tis'declined then. :/

Though Knight - I cannot recall said specific round were you tried to interact with me while I was detective...might have had to go afk for a few minutes at a time because my dogs had to be taken care of but that is a different matter.
My temperament is one problem that I work on for ages due to BPD; but sincerely I try to engage with as many people in security as possible when picking security officer as a role. Hardly due I ever not ask anybody within a round if they need some help or have some information on crimers. The security radio chatter is one thing I am very active in - most of the time.
#9
my first HoS app also got declined, don't stress it. try canvassing for support pre posting app. I have no sec feedback since I haven't seen you play sec when I was playing.
#10
From my experience, no - but please do not be disheartened. 

I'll explain what your good at: you're decently robust, and an obvious threat should you be utilized. You know how to combat threats well and are tenacious, you survive despite the odds thrown at you.

What I've noticed you're not great at: what Knight stated, your communication is poor. You tend to lone wolf and branch off from the team. You could be doing great things, but when no other security knows about it, then we don't know how to properly assess the station threat at hand. It starts to become detrimental when you've arrested a player, frisked them and thrown them into the brig and as HoS I don't know why they're there and while the person could be a baddie, I shouldn't have my doubts in those situations. 

So that's what you gotta work on - communication. I would recommend you try a few rounds being a warden, stick to sec HQ, look at the cameras, set arrests, ticket/fine players, send private PDA messages to players about potential baddies (hell even use the telephone), interview, and control prisoners. That'd build up the part I feel is lacking.

You'll find that HoS players are mostly chill and often put themselves in direct harms way if it makes for a decent story. You are effectively the fun police. For example if I know a player has bad intentions, I'll entertain there presence so long as they aren't actively murdering. I'll talk shit about them and try goad them into attacking me, and then I'll ticket them posthumously should get out-robust me. And if I do catch em, I'll talk shit about them more. Half my round is just talking shit. I fear, right now, if you become HoS, you won't have that mindset. 

So no for now, work on your weaknesses, because your strengths are already present.
#11
I remember why the name annoys me.

When I was a Cyborg, I got a couple law changes, mostly involving a Wizard messing with the law change, but after everything was fixed the random law that tells you to be as evil as possible without actually harming people retained. As an engi borg, this meant to me to make the hallways as annoying and difficult to navigate as possible.

As I was making the world's worst Queue to the escape shuttle, you saw me building, proceeded to chase, flash, and then bash my head to death. No attempt was made to understand what was going on, even after a law reset was stated multiple times, even after "State your laws or I'm destroying you" would DEFINITELY have gotten me to point out that I have a law that wants me to be a dick, as per law 3.

This happened at some point in the past few days.

And yes, I understand. The AI and borgs were subverted earlier. I murdered a few people that round. But this and what I've seen on here tells me that you see security as the good guys, and the good guys have to kill the bad guys, which is not what HoS needs to turn into. I can't recommend someone who sees security as a way for them, and them alone, to have fun with.
#12
(05-12-2020, 09:45 AM)Technature Wrote: I remember why the name annoys me.

When I was a Cyborg, I got a couple law changes, mostly involving a Wizard messing with the law change, but after everything was fixed the random law that tells you to be as evil as possible without actually harming people retained.  As an engi borg, this meant to me to make the hallways as annoying and difficult to navigate as possible.

As I was making the world's worst Queue to the escape shuttle, you saw me building, proceeded to chase, flash, and then bash my head to death.  No attempt was made to understand what was going on, even after a law reset was stated multiple times, even after "State your laws or I'm destroying you" would DEFINITELY have gotten me to point out that I have a law that wants me to be a dick, as per law 3.

This happened at some point in the past few days.

And yes, I understand.  The AI and borgs were subverted earlier.  I murdered a few people that round.  But this and what I've seen on here tells me that you see security as the good guys, and the good guys have to kill the bad guys, which is not what HoS needs to turn into.  I can't recommend someone who sees security as a way for them, and them alone, to have fun with.

i would've done the exact same thing to be fair lol
#13
(05-12-2020, 09:45 AM)Technature Wrote: I remember why the name annoys me.

When I was a Cyborg, I got a couple law changes, mostly involving a Wizard messing with the law change, but after everything was fixed the random law that tells you to be as evil as possible without actually harming people retained.  As an engi borg, this meant to me to make the hallways as annoying and difficult to navigate as possible.

As I was making the world's worst Queue to the escape shuttle, you saw me building, proceeded to chase, flash, and then bash my head to death.  No attempt was made to understand what was going on, even after a law reset was stated multiple times, even after "State your laws or I'm destroying you" would DEFINITELY have gotten me to point out that I have a law that wants me to be a dick, as per law 3.

This happened at some point in the past few days.

And yes, I understand.  The AI and borgs were subverted earlier.  I murdered a few people that round.  But this and what I've seen on here tells me that you see security as the good guys, and the good guys have to kill the bad guys, which is not what HoS needs to turn into.  I can't recommend someone who sees security as a way for them, and them alone, to have fun with.

Ah! Yes - I remember the round on Oshan.

I tried to explain myself the best I could in OOC after the round has ended and to my knowledge even apologized...and had hoped you'd understand the present confusion but here I'll try to have a go at it again.

For most of the round I was wandering around as a lone security officer (whether no-one else was present ... I don't know; just woke up a few minutes ago. Sorry.) - I had been facing a borg spreading Plasma in the bar, then a emagged borg in security HQ and at least more instance of some antag doing some heavy-type-shenanigans.

Most of the situations I had been facing some type of problematic borg has been right after one another and over the comms I could just hear much confusion about the AI being rogue or not rogue and it was outright hell to get a grasp at the situation unfolding.
Fearing for those that roamed in Escape close to the round ending (to being unable to get into the shuttle within a few seconds) ... I decided after you not responding to my command to state the laws to better be safe than sorry in that regard.
I reckon it might have felt a bit unfair for you but I honestly think that seeing you wall stuff in Escape close to the round ending was a hard thing to deal with the right way; for one I could have left to check on the AI myself...but then it might have been too late for me to stop you potentially walling Escape off...on the other hand I could have just let you build some strange construction near Escape.

Such a build-maze be it to just elongate the path to the shuttle itself or plainly annoy any passerby - carries the risk of robbing any evacuee of the station to miss the shuttle by a few seconds. I am sorry that I have upset you but I think my decision based on the information that was present and the confusion that was around was fair overall.

Perhaps it would have been better for me to just perma-flash you for the next five minutes until the shuttle would have arrived? I am frankly unsure what would have been the best course of action; but please. Please tell me how you would feel I should have acted despite the circumstances? Here to receive some fair critique and now I hope you understand why I acted the way I did. I had no intention of just basically ruining your round; just to stop you from potentially leaving a crewmember trapped on the station.

Have a good one. smile

Add to that - I think the Captain told me some time earlier (10 minutes or 15?) that he would reset the AI. Then some time later...borgs are still acting iffy. Adding to my initial confusion; if he even managed to reset the AI or if some wizard changed the laws once more.

(05-12-2020, 09:33 AM)Sundance Wrote: From my experience, no - but please do not be disheartened. 

I'll explain what your good at: you're decently robust, and an obvious threat should you be utilized. You know how to combat threats well and are tenacious, you survive despite the odds thrown at you.

What I've noticed you're not great at: what Knight stated, your communication is poor. You tend to lone wolf and branch off from the team. You could be doing great things, but when no other security knows about it, then we don't know how to properly assess the station threat at hand. It starts to become detrimental when you've arrested a player, frisked them and thrown them into the brig and as HoS I don't know why they're there and while the person could be a baddie, I shouldn't have my doubts in those situations. 

So that's what you gotta work on - communication. I would recommend you try a few rounds being a warden, stick to sec HQ, look at the cameras, set arrests, ticket/fine players, send private PDA messages to players about potential baddies (hell even use the telephone), interview, and control prisoners. That'd build up the part I feel is lacking.

You'll find that HoS players are mostly chill and often put themselves in direct harms way if it makes for a decent story. You are effectively the fun police. For example if I know a player has bad intentions, I'll entertain there presence so long as they aren't actively murdering. I'll talk shit about them and try goad them into attacking me, and then I'll ticket them posthumously should get out-robust me. And if I do catch em, I'll talk shit about them more. Half my round is just talking shit. I fear, right now, if you become HoS, you won't have that mindset. 

So no for now, work on your weaknesses, because your strengths are already present.

Yes. I accept that completely. Honestly it also sounds pretty fun to just chill a while in Security HQ and do some form-paperwork for arriving prisoners. Could see myself having a nice time throwing forms at crimers and just chilling at the entrance for anyone to tell me their complains. smile
#14
For what it's worth I think your attitude to feedback is to be commended and I think it will help you when you hopefully post your 2nd application in the future.
#15
So this took a while for various reasons, including my internet provider shutting down at midnight for the last 3 god damn days in a row.

So don't get me wrong on this, as I can understand the entire thing. I didn't know just how bad the other borgs were being (Communication? What the fuck is that?) and I understand that, especially when I get punished by the game far harder than I expect it too, I can lose my shit a little.

This isn't something I expect the average security boi to avoid doing, but it is something I expect from anyone wanting to be HoS.

I feel I should note that, especially when they're trying to be assholes by choice or otherwise, cyborgs generally don't pay much attention to anything outside of threats to their own lives when they're doing something (granted this is one of the first borg rounds I had since the floaty text was a thing). If memory serves correctly I think I did see a request for laws, but I likely assumed it was directed at the AI whom I also assumed would handle it.

In this situation, considering the borg wasn't going out of its way to stab people, I would either flash it long enough to get a handle on the situation or flash it, bring it to an enclosed area (going from Oshan escape, the small sec room or, if you wanna keep a potential escaping borg there a few seconds longer, the public market room (I assume that's what it is)) and demand an explanation under penalty of brain removal/head bashing. Borgs rarely need a reminder of Law 3 when their own survival is usually their top priority anyway.

Alternatively flash them long enough that they can't get on the shuttle I guess. Like I said, most of my annoyance at the time was dying for making the world's worst Queue line and I've gotten over it at this point.


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