Vigilantes

[Sundance]

..Have become a real game wrecker as of late.
The kind that take steal traitors items and use them to hunt down traitors.
Just there recently, I was spending some hard work making bombs in toxins because I had some explosive idea's, implanted myself with 5 microbombs. Only to get flashed by a non-traitor cloaker who saw one of the microbomb injector on the ground.
How am I meant to defend against that? I blew myself up in spite.

My point being, this is not an isolated issue. I have heard so many people complaining that they got rushed by some douchebag vigilante on deadchat.
It works on opposite sides of the water too, when playing security I've become pretty pissed off with people dragging traitors away when I cuffed them so they can get their stupid revenge via a fire extinguisher to the head.

I don't know really how to fix this as such. I totally get if the station as gone to shit and the traitor is covered in blood and murdering everything in sight. Hunting them down is fair game. Hunting down a traitor who hasn't done a thing yet, with traitor items as a non-traitor, that and they are not security.. well.. that's just shit and although it isn't meta, maybe they should be warned that what they are doing is pretty goddamn awful.

[Cogwerks]

step 1) don't leave evidence laying around
step 2) treat anyone with stolen traitor gear as likely traitor and definite criminal unless sec/heads authorized it (if they did they suck)
Yelling "I got it off a traitor!" really shouldn't be considered an acceptable excuse for running around with traitor gear. Confiscate that shit. It'll make them furious - good.
step 3) brig anyone who kills another person outside of obvious self-defense

It has always been a-okay to arrest vigilantes because they're usually doing some sort of illegal bullshit.
"Hey, I couldn't talk over the radio, so I killed my lab partner and found his radio jammer" sort of behavior ought to just be treated as murder.

Also arresting vigilantes for all the shit they've stolen and people they've probably killed will guarantee a delightful flood of tears and whining, which is always great fun.

[Katznelson]

It has always been a-okay to arrest vigilantes because they're usually doing some sort of illegal bullshit. "Hey, I couldn't talk over the radio, so I killed my lab partner and found his radio jammer" sort of behavior ought to just be treated as murder.

The crew/cyborg/AI does seem to take every instance of potential traitorous activity as something worthy of killing nowadays.

[Readster]

The crew/cyborg/AI does seem to take every instance of potential traitorous activity as something worthy of killing nowadays.

This is a bit of a valid point. I've been knocked unconscious and stripped searched for dragging around a gas canister before.
At the moment I just place people like that on my 'deny if they ever apply for HoS' list because that shit is really good at ruining a traitors round.

People don't seem to get that a round is boring for everyone if you just kill the traitor. The same people who hunt down and kill antags complain when the round has gone on 80 minutes and nothing has happened. No shit, you killed any chance of something happening dipshit.

[Sundance]

The crew/cyborg/AI does seem to take every instance of potential traitorous activity as something worthy of killing nowadays.

This is a bit of a valid point. I've been knocked unconscious and stripped searched for dragging around a gas canister before.
At the moment I just place people like that on my 'deny if they ever apply for HoS' list because that shit is really good at ruining a traitors round.

People don't seem to get that a round is boring for everyone if you just kill the traitor. The same people who hunt down and kill antags complain when the round has gone on 80 minutes and nothing has happened. No shit, you killed any chance of something happening dipshit.

The moment in question with me didn't actually start with him finding the microbombs, but actually when I was making bombs, he came inside toxins and started to disarm me of my canisters all the while under the cloak. He was a grade-A douchebag. Only when I implanted myself did he flash me. He was actively hiding around toxins because he was suspicious of me making bombs (I was, but that's not the point)
Probably isn't, but feels pretty meta to me.

[Cogwerks]

Yet another good excuse to finally make cloaks run on a battery charge.

[Nubcake]

I had an issue today where a traitor got taken down in the bar after a shootout by a bunch of vigilantes, but as they were stripping him i noticed multiple (used) micro bombs, so I yelled at them to not murder him since he would likely explode and hurt them and other people, but they ignored me.

So i grabbed the traitor from them, healed him a little to stop him dying and put him in a patient area of medbay. Then I called security to come and pick him up. The vigilantes just wouldn't fuck off. Eventually they broke into medbay, knocked me down with an extinguisher, and grabbed the traitor and finished him off, causing him to explode with 3 micro bombs, fuck up the medbay, and blow a bunch of innocent guys limbs off..

In a way, this event annoyed me a lot more than the time I was a traitor and wa killed by a vigilante coming fresh off the shuttle who heard i might be a traitor over the radio.

[Readster]

I once saw a guy break into genetics and stun the entire genetics staff just to gib my corpse because I was a traitor and obviously shouldn't be cloned.
This is the point where you've fucking charged over the line between justice warrior stopping an antag and shitty asshole with a play 2 win attitude.
These kinds of people are the real problem.

[Katznelson]

People don't seem to get that a round is boring for everyone if you just kill the traitor. The same people who hunt down and kill antags complain when the round has gone on 80 minutes and nothing has happened. No shit, you killed any chance of something happening dipshit.

Not just people. There has been a couple instances of cyborgs and AIs who relentlessly hunt down people who they think they are traitor or changelings or follow the person. I was once killed out of the blue by a borg who saw me space someone who was still alive as a traitor. His laws was on default but the borg refused to stop even after the AI told it to stop. (HoS lasered the borg to death)

Second time some AI managed to start a mob to kill the syndicate operatives, unbolting/bolting doors to let the crew kill them as they attempted to board.

While I do think that Play to Win people are inevitable and unceasing, something needs to be done with players who roll cyborgs or AI and make them learn such behavior is a big no no.

[Cogwerks]

Two things were already done about that: Cyborgs by default can be easily beaten into scrap metal unless they get an upgrade from the robotics crew, and as always, borgs and AIs who directly encourage or commit violence under default laws will get a yelling at if we're notified about them.

[SARazage]

I've been lucky and have never been the target of vigilantes, but people that just go around executing traitors are the worst. Traitors that rampage are pretty terrible too. It's just so much more fun to turn a blind eye to a traitor that hasn't murdered the entire crew or play stealthy pranks or subterfuge as a traitor.

Also try not to be too hard on AI's because sometimes they get play 2 win laws uploaded on them. I had one the other day but it was vague and non-specific so it turned into me warning the traitor that the law was coming after him and making siren noises, fun round.

[Clarks]

Meddling with traitors is cool when you don't act like a bloodthirsty murderer.
Nothing pisses a traitor off more than having their victim whisked away while they're finishing a kill.
Steaking their weapons and demanding money is also cool. I extorted Jay Wolff a couple of times. He was a good sport, but then there's dumb traitors that won't come to an agreement and quit.

But then there are people who gear up every round, to try and murder any bad guy that is reported. And of course it's easy when you have stolen security's guns and you don't give a fuck about giving traitors a chance to get back in the game and liven up the round.

[Marquesas]

Traitors that rampage are pretty terrible too.

Rude.

[Cogwerks]

Traitor rampages are more interesting when they build up slowly and when the traitor actually interacts with the crew, but I'm not really interested in yelling at traitors for being mean to people. Just if you're the pro sort of traitor who rampages constantly, maybe tone it down and try taunting the crew and doing weirder schemes sometime? Silent rampages get pretty dull, if you're gonna go hog wild it's more interesting for everyone if you act it up a bit.

But then there are people who gear up every round, to try and murder any bad guy that is reported. And of course it's easy when you have stolen security's guns and you don't give a fuck about giving traitors a chance to get back in the game and liven up the round.

These people are jerks and you could stop them at quite a few points. Arrest them for stealing gear, kick them out of sec if the HoP gave them some stupid vigilante all-access ID (this happens an awful lot), confiscate the ID if they seem like assholes instead of useful deputies. They'll probably have a meltdown and try to murder you... brig them for that and laugh at them. Arrest them for breaking into workplaces and assaulting or killing suspects before the cops get there, especially if they aren't coordinating with sec but are just being boring silent manhunters.

A lot of these suggestions kinda go away later in a round when things get chaotic. Paranoid vigilantes are kinda expected in the late game, but if they're interfering with security and being game-ruining idiots early in the round, up theirs.

note: this does not mean regular crewmembers should just ignore traitors, of course. Probably ought to clarify before someone inevitably takes it the wrong way. If a traitor tries to kill you, you are totally okay to kill them back. If they are a huge threat to the station or they're a nonhuman freak (rampage with a major body count, changeling, vampire, wizard, nuke operative), any crewmember is welcome to hunt them down. If it's possible to capture them alive, cool, that usually is more fun and interesting, but if not, oh well. Use some discretion. Although traitors are fair game for pretty much any sort of violence and abuse, this is more of an administrative policy than an in-game law policy - which we prefer to leave fairly vague. You'd probably get in an awful lot of trouble irl if you broke into a police station to kill a suspect, or you beat a guy to death because he had an illegal item of some sort.

[SARazage]

I wish more guards would take people alive. Generally if sec gets a stun on me and I'm not a wizard or changeling or something I'll stop resisting at that point unless something dramatic happens that turns things back in my favour.

I was a nuke operative the other night and got caught and let them take me alive, didn't suicide to have my micro bomb go off like a shit. I had more fun in the brig then I did as an operative. Just chattin on the intercom and playin' my harmonica.