Spawn borgs and AIs for people to latejoin by default

[aft2001]

[Please read the edit at the bottom]

The maximum number of Cyborg players selected from Readied players is, I believe, 3. The maximum for AI is 1.

By default, no borgs or AIs are available to join to play as when latejoining. Roboticists can make these, but that is not guaranteed.


If less than the max are put into the corresponding role (e.g only 1 borg is selected), then the remaining number should be spawned as units with Intelligence Formation Chips, allowing a latejoin AI without any work from a Roboticist, and the same with borgs if less than 3 have already been spawned in.

For example, this scenario would occur with this mechanic implemented:
No AI is selected at roundstart. 3 borgs are selected at roundstart. Thus, in the AI core an empty AI with an Intelligence Formation Chip is spawned in lieu of an active AI. A player then wants to latejoin, and they have the option of joining as an AI. However, as 3 borgs were already selected at roundstart, this player cannot latejoin as a borg unless a roboticist has made more.


All other jobs can latejoin if the job has not reached capacity yet; silicons should be no different. They are useful and enjoyable for some people to play, and some people also prefer to latejoin.


EDIT:

It seems as though people dislike the idea of *borgs* being able to latejoin, and have provided good arguments against it. Thus I suggest only AIs be able to latejoin. It may be prudent to have a Central Command announcement saying that a new AI has been downloaded, to make sure everyone knows that an AI has joined.

[phyvo]

Interesting idea though when I play roboticist I like feeling important when I make shells for latejoin silicons. The AI part seems like a very good addition. For people who want an easier time latejoining as a borg you could maybe make roboburgers a little more accessible. My experience is that you're much more likely to get a latejoin AI than a latejoin borg, though.

[aft2001]

Hm, yeah, perhaps just limiting it to AIs would be nice, since I can see what you mean as a roboticist.

I do like the idea of roburgers being more accessible. I'd imagine that they're only dangerous when used creatively, as a borg will 100% rat you out if you force-fed them nanites, so subsequently it'd be nice to have. Maybe have some in Robotics?

[Carbadox]

Borgs are incredibly strong IMO and part of the balance to them is the fact that you can only get to play them in the aforementioned way. Having a Borg join mid round can completely flip the tables, both for antags and non antags alike. I don't think this is a good idea

[Technature]

I'm okay for the AI being late joinable (The AI is rather helpful), but it can always be circumvented by having someone volunteer (or not) to be the AI.

Late Joinable Cyborgs seems like a bad idea though.

Compromise though: What if you could order a "DIY" cyborg that comes with a Cyborg brain, which could ask a ghost player at random to rejoin as it when constructed?

[aft2001]

Honestly, allowing ghosts to rejoin as an Intelligence Formation Chip borg isn't an awful idea.

There would likely have to be a MASSIVE pop-up that tells the player to *NOT* use info from their previous life or their time as a ghost. Additionally, DNR should probably prevent this as well.

This is, however, steering away from the original suggestion, which is to allow latejoin AIs (now excluding borgs)

[Tiggersaurus]

I'm all for late join borgs as I pretty much primarily play Borg. I've only ever seen a late join built once. Obviously this is a selfish wish+I can kind of understand the negative views of this though.

[GORE]

Due to a discussion on Discord I shall necro this thread! Wooosh!

Yeah late-join AIs on all servers would be pretty sweet.
Regarding the fact that an AI is really important in many circumstances. Trapped players and also often new players rely on the support of an AI to get out of a room they are trapped in.

[aft2001]

Please. At least for AI's, and at least for GoonRP.

What GORE described is a big part of the issue - the fact that AI is actually a really important role. It's deemed essential, like Captain, after all, so why wouldn't you be able to latejoin by default?

At the *very* least, having it on GoonRP would make it so that people who want to play AI don't have to wait for the next round, rely on the slight chance that a roboticist has built a new AI, or awkwardly joining just to be turned into an AI. By the way, multiple times I've had to wait for multiple hours to play as the role I wanted to, which is just unfun. With latejoin, I'd know for a fact that it's possible that I could play, but without it I'd just not bother to even play.

This is a personal bias, yes, but when near every other server has a quality of life feature that we don't, you really gotta ask whether or not *not* having it is a good idea.

[kyle2143]

Please. At least for AI's, and at least for GoonRP.

What GORE described is a big part of the issue - the fact that AI is actually a really important role. It's deemed essential, like Captain, after all, so why wouldn't you be able to latejoin by default?

At the *very* least, having it on GoonRP would make it so that people who want to play AI don't have to wait for the next round, rely on the slight chance that a roboticist has built a new AI, or awkwardly joining just to be turned into an AI. By the way, multiple times I've had to wait for multiple hours to play as the role I wanted to, which is just unfun. With latejoin, I'd know for a fact that it's possible that I could play, but without it I'd just not bother to even play.

This is a personal bias, yes, but when near every other server has a quality of life feature that we don't, you really gotta ask whether or not *not* having it is a good idea.

I don't really understand why you can't RP it to join as a latejoin AI, being sent there to be made into an AI or something?

But if we did want to do it, I think it would be fun to simply spawn an AI core with the latejoin "brain" somewhere in robotics if there is no AI on roundstart.

[aft2001]

Running in and screaming "TURN ME INTO A SOULLESS MACHINE" isn't... I dunno, it's just weird. And it depends on there being a roboticist.

Additionally, what would the DOWNSIDE of adding this feature be?

[Sundance]

Currently if there's no AI upon round start, the AI chamber starts out completely empty. No core, nuffin.

I think a large majority would like if instead, the physical core always spawned in the AI chamber, guaranteed (BSOD so the player is aware there's nobody home). This could allow for two benefits:

a) An AI can latejoin, not requiring an intelligence formation to do so.

b) A player brain can be placed in this core, not requiring a roboticist to make it from scratch. 

This doesn't really negate roboticists making extra AI cores, it just creates a baseline AI presence without messing things up by making the AI a forced role.

[Technature]

Running in and screaming "TURN ME INTO A SOULLESS MACHINE" isn't... I dunno, it's just weird. And it depends on there being a roboticist.

You're a criminal.  You've done something.  What?  Who knows.  But you regret it.  Enough to turn yourself in, even under a death penalty.

You're given an alternative.  Go to an NT station and have your mind transferred into the interface of an AI.  Surely a better alternative to death itself.

How were you allowed to come alone?  Maybe you're being monitored, and will be executed if you leave the station.  Maybe your ship had an accident and, for whatever reason, you're the only survivor.  And as a prisoner, Security has an excuse to do the surgery themselves.  Or even the Captain if there isn't any sec either.

I dunno, I came up with this in a few minutes.  I'm sure anyone could do better than me.

[Mouse]

You were an AI, but were kidnapped by anti-silicon fanatics and had your AI brain forcibly transplanted into a human body. However, you were able to escape them and make it to the nearest NT facility, where you desperately wish to be freed from your utterly disgusting prison of flesh.


THAT SAID, I don't see the harm in having a latejoin AI slot on RP.

[aft2001]

THAT SAID, I don't see the harm in having a latejoin AI slot on RP.

This. There is 0 harm in it, and adding it is trivial, I presume. There shouldn't be a debate over it, because it's a harmless addition that makes life easier.

Though trying to have human NEX-13 would be... interesting. I'd have to make another character, but still, it's an inconvenience and relies on other roles to play a role that I would like to play.