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negative comments on ban
Admin name: Firebarrage

Server: g2

Sometime earlier this week; On 11/8/10 (today) I attempted to log in and found the ban.

I do not mind the ban, I am not here to talk about the ban. My point of contention is the wording of the ban, "Freaks out again". My sole purpose of making this complaint is that I take offense to the notion that I had freaked out at all during the duration of that round, and the implication that this was not my sole freak-out. I had a fun time playing goon that day, and while the ban for vulgarity is warranted, I at no point in that round did anything out of malice for another player's experience. Furthermore, the things for which I was banned are loosely quoting this video:, not genuine frustration, but mimed anger based on a semi-dead meme.
In short, the wording of the ban uses negative language which I find offensive and detrimental to my reputation on goonstation.

Log of ban:
Reason: Freaks out again, this time with "[12:38:43] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: He whipped out his horse dick and pissed all over them (138,134,1 in The Rising Tide)", "[12:38:51] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: He said he fucked my wife and I said that's disgusting and uhhhh (138,134,1 in The Rising Tide)".
Banned By: firebarrage
This ban applies to all servers.
(This ban will be automatically removed in 2.5 Days.).
If you believe you were unjustly banned, head to the forums and post an appeal. 

Extra Information: I began the round as a lawyer, looking to do lawyer stuff. One of the first people I run into is Horse Horsington, so naturally I offer him my services because ofc Horse needs them. He starts grabbing at me and running around, so I spam a few disarms and get into a little scrap with him. We end up in security, and someone's left a flare gun box on the ground, with a sole flare left loaded. I say to him, "I'm so tempted to shoot you right now", which I then proceed to do. Security naturally does not like this, so they arrest me, and after a little bit of fighting back, I decide serving a little time for wrongs done and hanging around the cell isn't that bad. I sit around in the cell, wait for my timer to be up instead of running out with my security access, and then meet Horse again out in the hallway. He grabs me again and we just wrestle a little, then go on a high speed jog around the station (he had treads on so he could take us around). Later we get separated so I go to the bar, and seeing the mic, I decide to do my best to quote the first few lines from memory from the above linked video. I forget the exact wording, hence the "uhhh"s, so I leave it be and decide to make good use of the *piss function after drinking a cup of water, slipping a couple of people for fun. Then after that, I see I've been set to arrest by an officer for public urination, so I just casually alter my record to say that I've served my sentence, and set myself to release. At some point the shuttle is called, and being on Manta, I decide that I haven't really checked out the ocean yet. I try to, end up drowning because I didn't realize how quickly the ship moves, and leave maybe a minute before the shuttle docks with CC.
The ban reason states that there was a freak out. In this case it was quite a bit of intense yelling before the language issues came up. I can provide logs you would like to see them. The implication that this has happened multiple times is taken from your note history, as there have been several instances of excessive verbal responses to situations.
I still find the wording offensive as it implies I was emotionally compromised during that round. I will go down the list of my notes, but I am asking for a rewording of the current ban.
-The second note does constitute a freakout, I do remember being fairly salty from that death, two and a half years ago.
-The third note, as I explained to the admin, was after I had caught my assailant, and I decided to send them through belt hell on cog2 as punishment. I picked the wrong conveyor and accidentally spaced them. The situation was handled in game.
-I remember the football gear, I did not realize they were damaged and that the sole charge would kill them. That was also handled and agreed upon in game.
-Jane Baker at the time was constantly self-antaging, and they were focused on me for a bit.
-I do frequently get salty, and I have the right to complain about things that happen in game if I'm not being excessively vitriolic or otherwise warned by an admin. Anytime I do complain about to an admin is not with the intention of banning someone, but to report unsavory behavior.
-This was settled in game, I am hardly the worst offender when it comes to random fights. If I remember correctly, one fight got out of hand because I was stabbed, and then the fire alarm was pulled, trapping us in the bar.
-This was bad. At no point did I ever go against my master, attempt to play unrobustly to hamper them, or otherwise, but I did yell over the radio about how vampires are evil and how zombies will kill everyone, or something to that degree. Proud things were not said, but they did not translate to action.

All things considered, what occurred between me and Horse was not a freakout. I may be a salty boy but I am not a malicious or fun hating one.

Additionally, the ban itself was not for a supposed freakout, it was for vulgar language. If freakout is going to be on the ban, then the freakout itself must explicitly be a part of the offending material, and at no point during that round was there a legitimate freakout for which I was warned in game or told to dial down.
You are right that the ban was not for the freaking out. However, we do add notes if we see behavior that concerns us. Given that an interaction got heated enough to turn into a language issue and given the existence of previous notes along those lines I included it as an additional note about what I had seen. From our system's point of view there's not really a difference between a ban reason and a note which is why I rolled it into one.

You are right that we didn't chat during the round. Normally I would have talked to you about this first but you were offline when I got there, so I had to make a call based on the logs that I had available.
Just to be clear then, the language issue was not a result of me getting heated. It was as a result of me passing the microphone in the bar, and having already been engaged in a friendly back-n-forth with Horse, opting to make a joke based on a funny YT video. I have been in conflict with Horse before, but he's on of the players I do respect and have fun fighting with.
I consider the language and hotheadedness to be entirely separate events. Its wrapped into one because I did them at the same time. Functionally this is a ban + a note. I'll add that even if a joke is from a video the language rules still apply.
The hotheadness then I would like to see. I have seen many, many many worse players. If you mean the incident beforehand in security, I was not doing anything in excess that other players AND admins have not already done before. I did attempt to get away from them, I shouted a bit, but absolutely nothing I said was from a place of genuine toxicity.
Here is the conversation I was referring to

Quote:[12:26:29] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: horse cmonw (138,144,1 in Central Hallway)
[12:27:02] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: I want to shoot you (134,158,1 in Security Wing)
[12:27:48] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: okay first of all (151,155,1 in Courtroom)
[12:27:51] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: horse had it fucking coming (151,155,1 in Courtroom)
[12:28:00] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: motherfucker totally deserved that shit  (151,154,1 in Courtroom)
[12:28:07] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: now get these cuffs off me (149,157,1 in Security Wing)
[12:28:14] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: so I can go tell horse he's a fucking motherfucker (149,164,1 in Brig)
[12:28:22] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: You don't even know what the fuck I did do you (149,164,1 in Brig)
[12:28:27] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: Yeah well fuck horse (149,165,1 in Brig)
[12:28:39] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: You saw that motherfucker he's a horse (149,166,1 in Brig)
[12:29:27] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: Lets be real horse is fucking very deserving (151,166,1 in Brig)
[12:29:51] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: dude I literally have no shit on me (152,166,1 in Brig)
[12:29:55] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: why are you bothering to search me (152,166,1 in Brig)
[12:30:08] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: repeatedly grabbed at me so I smashed his face a little then shot him with a spare flare someone left on the ground (152,166,1 in Brig)
[12:30:10] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: literally nothing (152,166,1 in Brig)
[12:30:26] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: C'mon lets be super real about horse (152,166,1 in Brig)
[12:30:34] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: The motherfucker deserves literally everything coming at him (152,166,1 in Brig)
[12:30:51] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: Horse you should have gotten the lawyer (154,166,1 in Genpop Cell)
[12:31:08] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: yeah well as your lawyer I say you're in some deep shit buddy (154,166,1 in Genpop Cell)
[12:31:19] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: You gotta get drunk and fuck off (154,166,1 in Genpop Cell)
[12:31:23] [SAY] Abraham Lincoln (Faceplant-Kun): SAY: Or eat my dick (154,166,1 in Genpop Cell)

I play a lot of security, and ive seen lots of reactions from people as they are arrested. In my experience this is an unusually strong response to an arrest. Because I saw previous similar notes on file I included a statement that I saw something similar again.
Seeing these logs, I am glad that I made this thread.

- I have played a lot of rounds with Horse Horsington. He's not very talkative, usually making some kind of chemical brew in the still or robusting people like the robust motherfucker he is. When I say, "I want to shoot you", I mean it in the most loving way possible. Of course I wasn't going to try and kill him with a lousy flare gun shot in the middle of security. I've been hit by thousands of random flare shots and they do some burn damage that a silver sulf patch fixes in seconds. Who in their right mind would seriously say to someone that they disliked "I am going to shoot you", giving them an advantage? This entire scenario with me and Horse was just horsing around.
- Just talking shit about Horse for the next few lines. Of course I am in the wrong here, I shot him in full view of the security team. Who in their right mind in security would believe that the shit I'm saying while I'm being arrested is legitimate. A criminal insulting his victim? Run of the mill. I wasn't giving any legitimate reason as to why I shot Horse, which anybody who was legitimately mad would attempt to do, to justify their actions.
- I didn't attempt to run out of the cell when I was brigged, I told the officer explicitly what happened, something a genuinely mad and toxic player would never admit to, and all I say to "justify" my actions was that he "had it coming". I wasn't muddling the security comms with false accusations that they would need to actually check, I didn't lie about what I did to Horse, I didn't even say fuck you to the officer. At worst, I criticized him for wasting time searching me, because I was a fresh spawn.
-I'll note you also left out the part where I said something along the lines of "Okay you got me" to the officers. Who in their angry and freaked out mind would actually admit defeat to security?
-Also left out was when Horse replied to "Horse you should have gotten the lawyer", saying "You are my lawyer". Or how after I got released, there was no animosity between the both of us, the whole thing being limited to security.

I think this entire situation was misinterpreted, because it was seen as metagrudging or something similar. While I was definitely rowdy, I was most certainly not freaking out.
Futhermore, now that I'm thinking about it, why was I not contacted at all during this round? Why was I only banned after the round was over, when the incident was about mid-round? Was the ban length increased because of this perceived freakout? If so, then I would want to make a complaint on the duration of the ban, which in retrospect seems to be fairly long, 3.5 days, just for language. Was there even an adminhelp from anyone in game about my behavior? From what perspective was my behavior witnessed?
(11-08-2019, 06:10 PM)Faceplant Wrote: Futhermore, now that I'm thinking about it, why was I not contacted at all during this round? Why was I only banned after the round was over, when the incident was about mid-round?
No admin was online at the time. I arrived and went through previous ahelps to check out complaints. When I got there you had already logged off, so I had no way of contacting you.

(11-08-2019, 06:10 PM)Faceplant Wrote: Was the ban length increased because of this perceived freakout? If so, then I would want to make a complaint on the duration of the ban, which in retrospect seems to be fairly long, 3.5 days, just for language.
No, the ban is for rule 4 only. The length was chosen because there are previous warnings for other rules issues in your notes.

(11-08-2019, 06:10 PM)Faceplant Wrote: Was there even an adminhelp from anyone in game about my behavior? From what perspective was my behavior witnessed?
Yes, that is why I was looking into this situation. We do not reveal information about who ahelps rules issues.
I don't understand why the duration of the ban was extended solely for my notes then. The ban itself is for sexual language which I do not have a record of. Unless the adminhelp was directed towards my other behaviors in game, I don't see why I should be punished for my history and not the incident itself. I've been with goon for awhile, my notes should not be a ball and chain that I eternally pay for. I have already served my few, short bans, I listen to admins when I'm talked to, I don't try to ruin people's fun and stay within the lines of what kind of transgressions are allowed. I'm one of the most responsible security officers that plays still, I'm not about to be a troublemaker. My intentions have always been good and the additional time feels like you believe otherwise.

I still want the wording of the ban changed too. Considering you were not online at the time and had to apply the ban only using logs and notes, I don't believe you can accurately judge my behavior during that round as being this flagrant. The worst thing that happened was I said a few naughty words. I don't want negative language on my notes that implies I had "freaked out again" because of a non-incident. My note record has lasting impacts on my reputation here and I want the details to be correct or accounted for. I was banned for sexual content over the radio, there was no abnormal freakout that you can prove happened. The logs in question you've used as evidence fail to take into account the actions and timings that occured with them, only confirming a bias through my language alone. I would say that a majority of my rounds feature me yelling, because that's what this game is about. Transgressions and rudeness are perfectly allowed in game so long as they stay in game and do not lead to out of game nastiness.

Considering that your first reply to my complaint was just my notes, as if they were to stand by their own value without needing any context, I have two additional statements:
First, it felt very dismissive, as if to say that I was making a complaint over nothing, and should accept that I'm a bad boy and therefore deserve whatever's coming at me. It felt like there was no thought put behind it, as there was no actual discussion or elaboration until you edited your post. I am not here because I want to complain or get back at anyone, I just want to ensure the correct effort is put into wording my notes. This is not an attack on you, and I want it to be as clear as possible what my intentions are.
Secondly, this is why I need to make sure my notes are accurate. If any admin can use my notes without context to justify whatever action they've taken against me, then it's my personal responsibility to ensure only factual information is represented in my notes. I am disappointed at the wording of some of the other notes, but I will not retroactively attempt to alter those, especially considering the one in question, "look out for this guy", is from 2017.

I would also like to comment that notes do not feature status updates: It's not like an admin will come back years later, unsolicited, to add "He's been playing nicely" to my notes. It's not an admin's responsibility to record a player's reputation in their notes, only the negative. The only way to prove to the admins or playerbase that one has changed is through gameplay. I have not been as active on goon as I used to be, and now it's mostly game I boot up here and there rather than daily. I do not want to spend excessive hours playing goon just to expose myself to the entirety of the playerbase just to prove what kind of a player I am. I dislike that this is the only way to judge players, through reputation or negative notes, but I understand the limitations of the system.
I'm not involved directly with the incident at hand and don't want to voice any opinion as I haven't made myself familiar with the full context, but regarding your last point of status updates:

Notes have dates attached and if someone's playing with a very clean record after having a long past history of awful behavior, he'll be looked on favorably, with the likewise reverse for people who have notes being warned about a certain thing and after coming back a long time later keep repeating the same things.
Adding notes taking notice of the aforementioned also does happen, in addition to just general notes for positive behavior, which come up when referring people for positions like mentor or supporting the already applying players.

If a note is from a long time ago, it's unlikely to be brought up unless it's been happening regularly over a very long time period or is directly tied to a particular incident and/or trend continuing. From my brief skim through the text I believe that's one of your complaints in that such might've been unfairly brought up when specifying the reasoning for the ban, which I believe fire will take into consideration.
Is anything going to come out of this? I haven't been on lately but I'm still upset at how this incident was handled. It's clear that my case was only handled with a cursory investigation of the logs and my notes, without the context of the round.
I guess I'm not sure what more youre looking for? This ban has long since been lifted

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