Stop flashpowder stunning through sunglasses, Add 'Flash' grenades

[TDHooligan]

Sonic powder has existed as the key stunning component of flashbangs for a very long time, yet, for some reason, flash powder still stuns through sunglasses, making it useless to those concerned with ONLY stunning people with no sunglasses (Like security guards, or scientists with their sunglasses) 

As a matter of fact, this makes flashpowder explosives useless for security, as they end up disorienting the thrower (and all the gung-ho sec officers that charge in with them), making them extremely hard for Security to use.


By extension, adding a new 'Flash' grenade, using solely this new flash powder, would also mean that security officers have a safe crowd disabler at the cost of reliability.

[Sundance]

Hmm not sure if I'm game for that.. it is a "FlashBANG" after all. 

With your flashgrenade, you could effectively run into a crowd with it in-hand and let if off without any downside. That doesn't seem balanced. And if it is balanced, then what's the difference between this and using the flash AoE?

Flashbangs could definitely use some tweaking. I'd prefer a flashbang to create that disoriented effect for longer rather than an outright stun, so it can be used to soften targets.

Also, a small QoL but if a grenade is activated in-hand it would be nice if the throw function is automatically applied.

[Flaborized]

Flashbangs already do significantly less to you if you're wearing sunglasses as far as I can tell and do literally nothing if you go out of your way to get ear protection and also have eye protection. I like current flashbangs; they have the advantage of not having to land a specific click and the disadvantage of being able to hit the user. It means that you have to use them like an actual flashbang (or they feel like a game-y representation of that feeling) by throwing them into rooms and being mindful of where they go off. If you want to be immune to them, you have to take the disadvantage of not being able to hear. It's an interesting balance IMO.

[TDHooligan]

You're right with the holding it in your hand part, flash powder is listed to cause a stun to those close to it; but the key issue i want highlighted is that even at long ranges, sunglasses don't actually block flash powders' disorientation effect.

They're very difficult to make use of unless you have earplugs, whereby i believe you can actually just freely hold the flashbang anyway.

If it's not specifically changing flashbangs' chemical makeup, or adding new grenades, the key issue is that flash powder currently provides effects to those with its' designated protection (Sunglasses) at long range.

As for your QoL, i believe clicking the floor now instantly throws a grenade to where you click.

Edit:
In fact, I should probably just say that my key issue is not with flashbangs, but rather, with Flash Powder, I use it in a lot of my recent chemistry equipment and it is practically synonymous with Sonic Powder - It has several very disorienting effects, even through Sunglasses, in a fairly large radius. Isn't this what Sonic Powder is for?

[Frank_Stein]

I think it makes sense that a flashbang would have both sonic and flashpowder as a double whammy, but flash and sonic powder independently target hearing or vision

[Sundance]

Yeah this is the part that's confusing me.

TD, Flashbangs not only have flash powder in them, but hootonium also. So of course a flashbang would effect anyone wearing a pair of shades at a distance, not because of the flashpowder but because of the hootonium.

Although as you've noted that this doesn't seem to be the case chemically, this doesn't really take away from the fact how flashbangs currently function, as they'll still have hootonium in them.

Perhaps a minor change to how Hootonium works, and as such - Flashbangs? In line with my previous post, increase the effective range of the flashbang but reduce the effective range of hootonium. This is difficult to explain without a picture:


This is the tweak that I was trying to portray. This change might be what you're looking for.

Quick Edit: I'mma hop into the game and do some testing to give you actual figures of what I mean by "effective range". Increasing the effective range of the flashpowder by 1 tiles and reduce the effective range of sonic powder/hoot by 1 tile gives you a that yellow range where only flashpowder effects you of 2 tile circumference. Again, need to actually fully test before I blab on.

[aft2001]

As an alternative, it may be worthwhile to make Security headsets immune to stuns caused by hootingium - at least for anyone that spawns as Security (so you couldn't find any in the lockers, though maybe a few pairs in the armory/HoS' locker)

This solves the issue of flashbangs being near useless or even detrimental to Security while still not having to make tweaks to existing chemicals - just a new headset type that includes the property of noise protection. Essentially a combination of a Security headset and Ear plugs (the ones that come with sonic grenades). This should probably also reduce the TC cost of sonic grenades a little, as they become useless against Security and are best suited for handling large mobs of angry spacemen/shattering windows.

[TDHooligan]

Exactly, lowering the stunning radius of Sonic Powder would be good, but it will mess up Sonic grenades against unprotected players.

Perhaps these security headsets could have an 'active' mode, where they act like earplugs but can still hear anything posted over the security radio frequency. Like a sort of active-hearing headset. The benefits being flashbang immunity and ability to co-operate better over raids, but a long-term problem in hearing calls for help over the radio, etc.

If that's too much, perhaps they could even require battery power.

[UrsulaMejor]

make the upgraded sec helmets act like the tactical helmets from swat 4, where they mitigate the effects of flash bangs

I don't like the idea of sec being safe from improper flashbang usage by default + without looking SUPER GOOFY