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Wonkmin, Goon #1 07:45
#1
Admin name: Wonkmin
Server: Goonstation #1
Date/Time: From what I can tell it was 07:45 your local time. But for me it was 01:45/UTC+10:00

Synopsis: Playing on Goon #1 standing outside of Medbay when a Clown comes up to me beeping his horn being annoying (like Clowns do), so I decided to try and knock it out of his hands. While myself and the Clown were messing around, the Captain decides to come up and watch the show. It was just the 3 of us there and no one else around. As we were gathered up in front of Medbay the Captain decides to suck blood front of us I pulled out my taser, tasered him and put him in cuffs. 

The Captain started yelling "WHAT ARE YOU DOING. I'M NOT THE ONE WHO DRAINED. YOU FOOL" as he on to claim that it was the Clown who actually drained the blood and that he was actually the victim. At this point I was pretty confused because I clearly saw the Captain suck blood but he was accusing the Clown of being a Vampire. So I decided to cuff them both. I asked the Quarter Master who arrived as this all started going down to grab the Captain and follow me to the Chapel so we can test them both (He didn't do that but ran the other way the moment I left).

I brought the Clown to the Chapel to see if he was affected by anything (Because we all know Vampire don't like holy stuff) but after a little while nothing happened. I left with the Clown then he asked me if he could get compensated for the who debacle, so I agreed to give him something from Security so we can go catch this lying Captain.

We ended up running down the halls past Bar and around the corner towards Security when we bumped right into the Captain himself. Of course I immediately got out my baton and put him in cuffs. I dragged him literally kicking and screaming off to Chapel. When we arrived after a short time we noticed him starting to burn, so out of the two of them we could confirm that he was indeed the Vampire. As we were holding him there Detective pointed out that he was dying and it wouldn't be due process to kill him. We hauled him off to Medbay to treat his wounds.

While we were treating him I was sent a Admin message straight away and quickly banned before I had a chance to respond.




Addressing Admin Message: (Because he didn't give me any time to respond and banned me the moment he sent the last message)

Admin PM from-Wonkmin: Immediately calling out "vamp" and other nonsense, including dragging them to the chapel, is not acceptable on this roleplay server.
I wasn't the one to "Immediately call out Vamp" It was the Captain (Vampire) himself.
How else do you test whether or not people are Vampires if you don't use the Holy Items on the station?

You have been banned by wonkmin.
Reason: Awful roleplay behaviour, immediately calling "vamp" and then using frankly metagamey knowledge to ensure that the vamp died. This is not acceptable on the roleplay server.

Again I wasn't the one to call out Vamp.
Meatgamey knowledge? So in that sense anyone who uses anything that only Vampires react to, to test them is "Metagamey knowledge"??
Vampire wasn't dead, in the screen shot you can very clearly see him whispering something while we're trying to heal him AS you're banning me. So yea he probably did die because I had to stop and try to respond to this.




Log:

(Myself) knocks the bike horn out of Clown 's hand!
(Myself) has been hit by the bike horn.
Clown shakes (Myself), trying to grab their attention!
Captain says, "security"
Clown shakes (Myself), trying to grab their attention!
Captain says, "arrest that clown"
Captain exclaims, "what the!"
(Myself) shoots Captain point-blank with the taser gun!
Captain is hit by the energy bolt!
Captain twitches violently.
Captain stammers, "VVAAMMMMPPIIRRREE"
(Myself) attempts to handcuff Captain
(Myself) handcuffs Captain
Captain stammers, "WWHHHAATT AARREE YYOOOU DDDOOINGG"
Quarter Master Still screams!
Captain stammers, "IIM NNOOOOTTT TTTHHHE OONEEEE WWHHHHOOO DDRRAAAAIIIINED"
Quarter Master asks, "Captain?"
Captain stammers, "YYOOUU FOOOOLL"
Captain stammers, "TTTHHESSEECC IISS RROOGGGGUEE"
Captain attempts to remove the handcuffs!
Captain stammers, "II waaass tthhhhhhee onnee wwhhhhoo goott ddraiiiinneedd"
Captain stammers, "yyoouu dduummm"
(Myself) says, "ok"
(Myself) says, "i have an idea"
Clown has been stunned with the stun baton by (Myself)!
(Myself) attempts to handcuff Clown !
(Myself) handcuffs Clown !
Captain stammers, "WWhhatt dduuummbbaass succcckss bbllloooodd iinn ttheoopppeennnn"
(Myself) says, "heyQM"
(Myself) says, "grab that one"
(Myself) points to the steel floor.
Clown says, "security is harrasing me, please ban"
Clown attempts to remove the handcuffs!
Captain says, "You shall do no such thing"
(Myself) says, "hey come with me"
Captain says, "I am your captain"
Quarter Master whispers something.
Detective [135.9] asks, "Whats going on in medbay?"
Captain exclaims, "and you are arresting me without cause!"
(Myself) says, "grabthe cap"
Captain says, "let go"
Clown attempts to remove the handcuffs!x2
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Captain is probably a vampire"
(Myself) says, "Captain is probably a vampire"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Its either him or the clown"
(Myself) says, "Its either him or the clown"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "i have the clown in chapel so we'll find out"
(Myself) says, "i have the clown in chapel so we'll find out"
Captain [145.9] says, "Again it was me who got succed"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Weel come to chapel then"
(Myself) says, "Weel come to chapel then"
Captain [145.9] says, "And then you proceeded to beat me"
Captain [145.9] asks, "Why should i trust you?"
Captain [145.9] says, "You just beat the captain"
Captain [145.9] says, "And tried to drag me away"
Captain [145.9] says, "Before somebody saved me"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Because you called out the clown and I'm trying to figure out who the Vamp is you dumb dumb"
(Myself) says, "Because you called out the clown and I'm trying to figure out who the Vamp is you dumb dumb"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Sp Captain is the Vampire if he doesn't come to chapel"
(Myself) says, "Sp Captain is the Vampire if he doesn't come to chapel"
Captain [145.9] asks, "By assulting the victim?"
Captain [145.9] says, "I was the one who got drained you dumb dumb"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Well come to chapel"
(Myself) says, "Well come to chapel"
Captain [145.9] says, "No i do not trust you"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Sigh"
(Myself) says, "Sigh"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "Captain is the Vampire" 
(Myself) says, "Captain is the Vampire"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "The clown is fine"
(Myself) says, "The clown is fine"
(Myself) [145.9] says, "I have had him in chapel this whole time and he hasn't been hurt"
(Myself) says, "I have had him in chapel this whole time and he hasn't been hurt"
(Myself) attempts to remove Clown 's handcuffs!
(Myself) manages to remove Clown 's handcuffs!
Clown asks, "you gunna compensate me or what?"
(Myself) says, "sure"
(Myself) says, "coem to sec"
(Myself) says, "you can help me get that lying captain"


Captain has been stunned with the stun baton by (Myself)!
Captain says, "well its very confusing"
Captain twitches.
Clown says, "okay, let me go get my plasmabomb"
(Myself) handcuffs Captain!
Captain says, "CEASE"
Captain says, "DETECTRIVe"
Captain says, "HELP"
Captain says, "I AM YOUR CAPTAIN"
(Myself) says, "he is a vampire"
(Myself) says, "he is a vamp"
Detective says, "This is a mutiny (Myself) what are you doing"
(Myself) says, "I'm taking him to chapel"
Captain says, "YOU HAVE NO CAUSe"
Captain says, "dude"
Captain says, "you are such a fucking idiot"
(Myself) says, "If you're not a vampire you should be fine"
Captain says, "alrihjt"
Detective says, "(Myself) I can't let this stand"
(Myself) says, "You sucked blood infront of me then blaimed the clown"
Captain gasps, "IT WASNT ME"
Captain gasps, "YOU FUCKING IDIOT"
Captain gasps, "God fucking damn it"
Detective says, "Oh, he is burning"
Captain gasps, "nniiccee ggoooiingg"
(Myself) says, "See"
Captain gasps, "ii ddiiddnn''tttt ddoo sssshitt"
Captain collapses!
(Myself) says, "i held the clown in here for 10mins"
(Myself) says, "its your turn"
Detective says, "Well that solves tha"
Detective says, "We need a new captain"
(Myself) asks, "if we turn him into a monkey does he stay a vampire?"
Detective says, "Hang on"
Detective says, "This isnt due process"
Detective says, "We cant just kill him"

(After this is in the screen shot, you can see the some of the chat of us trying to heal him while in Medbay before/as the Admin is messaging)


   
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#2
Sure, it was a quick ban.

The logs disagree strongly that "He blaimed the clown and sucked blood right infront of me. " is the truth so I figured this wasn't worth discussing. Also, you say you didn't call "vamp" but this log clearly shows you doing so, several times. You may not have been the first to do it, but that doesn't excuse a single thing.

If you want to complain about a quick ban sure, guilty.

However, your behaviour on the RP server is poor and does not fit, and this is your second note about that. Turning around and challenging someone with "(Myself) [145.9] says, "Sp Captain is the Vampire if he doesn't come to chapel"" - this is terrible and will not be accepted on the RP server.
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#3
(06-13-2019, 10:48 AM)Wonkmin Wrote: Sure, it was a quick ban.

The logs disagree strongly that "He blaimed the clown and sucked blood right infront of me. " is the truth so I figured this wasn't worth discussing. Also, you say you didn't call "vamp" but this log clearly shows you doing so, several times. You may not have been the first to do it, but that doesn't excuse a single thing.

If you want to complain about a quick ban sure, guilty.

However, your behaviour on the RP server is poor and does not fit, and this is your second note about that. Turning around and challenging someone with "(Myself) [145.9] says, "Sp Captain is the Vampire if he doesn't come to chapel"" - this is terrible and will not be accepted on the RP server.

Right I did say Vamp, but why would that be note worthy in the ban when I wasn't the one who called it first? I was going off information that was already spread (By the Vampire himself) so am I not right to also claim that there is a Vampire?

He very clearly was calling for the arrest of the Clown for being a Vampire. (Context of being in the situation)

Also it wasn't a "Challenge" I didn't just call out a random person and say that if you don't come to X that must mean you're a Vampire/whatever. It was myself, the Clown and the Captain, unless you have a hard time at maths, if it's not the Clown then there is only one other person to pick. (Note to self, can't use logical deduction in a situation because its "not be accepted on the RP". 2 - 1 ≠ 1
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#4
Quote:[11:22:12] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: : Wait shit
[11:22:17] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: : I didn't want to be captain!
[11:23:03] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: : well boys get ready for a bumpy shift cause i have no idea what i'm doing
[11:23:36] [COMBAT] Po Frystone () [T]: has implanted Po Frystone () [T] with a the tracking implant implant (/obj/item/implant/tracking) at (156,126,1 in Bridge).
[11:26:30] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: hello officer
[11:26:34] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: how goes it
[11:30:25] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: hey clown
[11:31:17] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: security
[11:31:20] [COMBAT] Po Frystone () [T]: shoots Katey Still () [T] at (162,175,1 in Inner Maintenance). Projectile: blood glob, Type: /datum/projectile/special/homing/vamp_blood
[11:31:20] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: arrest that clown
[11:31:25] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: what the!
[11:31:25] [COMBAT] Axle Miller (Hyrikz): shoots Po Frystone () [T] point-blank at (143,180,1 in Medbay Lobby). Projectile: energy bolt, Type: /datum/projectile/energy_bolt
[11:31:25] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: EMOTE: Po Frystone twitches violently.
[11:31:27] [SAY] Po Frystone () [T]: SAY: VAMPIRE
[11:31:28] [COMBAT] Axle Miller (Hyrikz): shoots Po Frystone () [T] point-blank at (143,180,1 in Medbay Lobby). Projectile: energy bolt, Type: /datum/projectile/energy_bolt

Here are the relevant logs from the vampire's point of view leading up to this.

Some things of note:
This vampire did not do a single vampire action before being attacked. From an RP perspective they were entirely innocent. The blood bolt line is how the new vampire abilities work, and that line shows Katey Still draining Po, not the other way around.

There is absolutely no evidence in the logs that any vampire was spreading information about themselves or any other vampire.

You arrested someone who was completely innocent at that point, and the fact that they were a vampire seems to me to be nothing but sheer dumb luck. They never should have been arrested or hauled to the chapel because they hadnt done a single thing.
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#5
(06-13-2019, 11:10 AM)Firebarrage Wrote:
Quote:[11:22:12] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: : Wait shit
[11:22:17] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: : I didn't want to be captain!
[11:23:03] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: : well boys get ready for a bumpy shift cause i have no idea what i'm doing
[11:23:36] [COMBAT] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: has implanted Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T] with a the tracking implant implant (/obj/item/implant/tracking) at (156,126,1 in Bridge).
[11:26:30] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: hello officer
[11:26:34] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: how goes it
[11:30:25] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: hey clown
[11:31:17] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: security
[11:31:20] [COMBAT] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: shoots Katey Still (<CKEY DELETED>) [T] at (162,175,1 in Inner Maintenance). Projectile: blood glob, Type: /datum/projectile/special/homing/vamp_blood
[11:31:20] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: arrest that clown
[11:31:25] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: what the!
[11:31:25] [COMBAT] Axle Miller (Hyrikz): shoots Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T] point-blank at (143,180,1 in Medbay Lobby). Projectile: energy bolt, Type: /datum/projectile/energy_bolt
[11:31:25] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: EMOTE: Po Frystone twitches violently.
[11:31:27] [SAY] Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T]: SAY: VAMPIRE
[11:31:28] [COMBAT] Axle Miller (Hyrikz): shoots Po Frystone (<CKEY DELETED>) [T] point-blank at (143,180,1 in Medbay Lobby). Projectile: energy bolt, Type: /datum/projectile/energy_bolt

Here are the relevant logs from the vampire's point of view leading up to this.

Some things of note:
This vampire did not do a single vampire action before being attacked. From an RP perspective they were entirely innocent. The blood bolt line is how the new vampire abilities work, and that line shows Katey Still draining Po, not the other way around.

There is absolutely no evidence in the logs that any vampire was spreading information about themselves or any other vampire.

You arrested someone who was completely innocent at that point, and the fact that they were a vampire seems to me to be nothing but sheer dumb luck. They never should have been arrested or hauled to the chapel because they hadnt done a single thing.

From the RP perspective we all heard the (A) Vampier sucking blood, thats what caused the Captain to call out to arrest the Clown. (Because he just had his blood sucked and didn't know who it was)

So me also hearing and seeing it I arrested the person that the blood animation was coming from and the person that was being accused of being the Vampire.

"They never should have been arrested or hauled to the chapel because they hadn't done a single thing."
Yea there was a Vampire and the guy had a blood animation coming from his sprite, along with then calling someone else a Vampire as it happens. If that doesn't warrant to check the both of them than you must you can't arrest people for walking out of a room with a dead body and blood everywhere because you didn't actually see them directly do anything. Be you have enough reasonable suspicion to check them.

So are we or are we not allowed to check for Vampires and other "creatures" using these methods?

So if I have this right I'm essentially getting banned for 3 days because I arrested the wrong guy and he also happened to be a Vampire?

The guy never died while I was in game. In fact I was in the middle of healing him when I was banned.
(But that was a reason on the ban??)

I called out Vampire because blood was being sucked so is that not a valid reason to claim that there is a Vampire?

I had reasonable suspicious because the guy had blood coming out of him / noise of blood being sucked from him and he was then claiming that someone who very much wasn't doing anything was Vampire.
(If you can't check someone for being suspicious then ban every Secoff that dares to detain the wrong person)

Are we not allowed to use items in game to check whether or not something is a "creature" of any sort under suspicion, because its meta gaming?? Because that was also stated in the reasons in the Admin message.


So if the reasons for bans actually mean anything then this is what the exact reasons are

Exact quote from ban reason:

Awful roleplay behaviour, immediately calling "vamp" and then using frankly metagamey knowledge to ensure that the vamp died. this is not acceptable on the roleplay server.

So what about any of that was "metagamey"
Also the blatant lie about how I used it ensure that he dies when I was actively trying to save him?
Also what exactly did I roleplay incorrectly with pretty valid suspicion based on the events / things that were happening in front of me?
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#6
But you didn't check both of them. You arrested Po and then a bit later arrested the clown, who had absolutely nothing to do with this situation. In fact, looking at the logs the clown had done absolutely nothing but punch himself in the face once, so I'm not sure why you went and arrested them either.

Is it reasonable if you see some strange fight to stop it and figure things out while RPing an officer breaking up a fight? Yes. But to arrest someone who was attacked, let the actual attacker go, and then go on to arrest yet another innocent person? This is just awful sec work overall. Honestly, id grump about this even on the non-RP server.
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#7
(06-13-2019, 11:55 AM)Firebarrage Wrote: But you didn't check both of them. You arrested Po and then a bit later arrested the clown, who had absolutely nothing to do with this situation. In fact, looking at the logs the clown had done absolutely nothing but punch himself in the face once, so I'm not sure why you went and arrested them either.

Is it reasonable if you see some strange fight to stop it and figure things out while RPing an officer breaking up a fight? Yes. But to arrest someone who was attacked, let the actual attacker go, and then go on to arrest yet another innocent person? This is just awful sec work overall. Honestly, id grump about this even on the non-RP server.

Did you read anything from what I posted about the turn of events? I have a feeling you didn't and just thought that everything thats needed to know is in the logs, because that made no sense.

1. Po and Clown were the only ones in front of me
2. Po had Vampire animations and sounds coming from his direction and on him, the Clown was accused of being the Vampire and attacking Po. Both were put in cuffs.
So I can't detain people when someone claims they're a Vampire? Not even when the Captain tells me to?

I arrested both of them and even check the Clown first, not Po. 
I also checked them so I have no idea what you're talking about when you say I never did (Thats the whole reason I took them to Chapel)
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#8
I think this process has kinda run its course, so i'm going to go ahead and address your concerns in this last post and put it to rest.

I assure you, sincerely, that we read everything. We read forum posts, logs, and all the dialogue and flavor texts presented in-game. The facts you're relaying to us aren't accurate. They may be exactly what you remember, and that's not bad- fooling folks is part of the mechanics of certain antagonists.

But the end result was that you acted, on very incorrect information, against the orders of a superior officer, with spurious if any evidence, in a way that ruined the round for several players.
You have a responsibility to act with prudence, and extend reasonable doubt, and leniency, to anyone who isn't currently trying to murder you. At no point were you in danger here.

That's just how the roleplay server, and the security role work.

We appreciate that the banning admin could have communicated more clearly with you before applying the ban, but the end result, with your recent history of misuse of force and bad roleplay, would have been the same. Your ban should be expiring soon regardless- please take to heart what you've been told here and avoid rash decisions.
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#9
(06-16-2019, 06:57 AM)John Warcrimes Wrote: I think this process has kinda run its course, so i'm going to go ahead and address your concerns in this last post and put it to rest.

I assure you, sincerely, that we read everything. We read forum posts, logs, and all the dialogue and flavor texts presented in-game. The facts you're relaying to us aren't accurate. They may be exactly what you remember, and that's not bad- fooling folks is part of the mechanics of certain antagonists.

But the end result was that you acted, on very incorrect information, against the orders of a superior officer, with spurious if any evidence, in a way that ruined the round for several players.
You have a responsibility to act with prudence, and extend reasonable doubt, and leniency, to anyone who isn't currently trying to murder you. At no point were you in danger here.

That's just how the roleplay server, and the security role work.

We appreciate that the banning admin could have communicated more clearly with you before applying the ban, but the end result, with your recent history of misuse of force and bad roleplay, would have been the same. Your ban should be expiring soon regardless- please take to heart what you've been told here and avoid rash decisions.


If you're going to state that after reading all available information about everything that has unfolded, then state that fooling folks is part of a antags job, then you very clearly know why this is such a issue.

Based on the information present to me while making those decisions was more than justified, arresting two individuals who were involved. One was a potential Vampire based on my visual and auditory assumption, and one was a Vampire by accusations of others involved. The decision was made to check them both. Also are you saying that regardless of current suspicion we should follow the orders of a superior officer? Surely if that's the case we would have a lot more issues on our hands with people assisting antags regardless of if they have been called out or not, because as you stated a superior officer can override any suspicion based on his word alone. That hardly seems reasonable.

Also please elaborate on how me checking the suspected of what they have been suspected of can in any way ruin the round for several people?

From my actions alone the only harm done was exposing someone who was suspected to have committed a crime, as a antagonists (Be that the actual person or not). The real harm was done by the Admin banning me before I could have finished administering first-aid, and ruinning a round by allowing someone to die because of his lack of judgment and rather unprofessional quick banning without any time for explanation.

Also are we going to address the fact that in the reasoning for this ban there were blatantly lies, and which were used to further reinforce a hastily ban. And what appears to be incorrect reasons for the banning as stated "metagamey knowledge" and allowing that also to be used as a valid ban reason. Unless you're suggesting that everyone who use such information for the testing of "creatures" human or not is a good enough reason to be used in a ban?

Added note that trying to bring up prior situations that have resulted in a note, which have absolutely no relation to anything in this current situation to try and discredit this post is pretty distasteful. The fact that you would bring anything unrelated up when weather or not the result would be been the same shows that you're trying to find ever possible way to dismiss this argument / make it seem invalid for anyone reading.

So I would much like these false ban reasonings to be addressed and not be glossed over be a attempt to ignore them.

Like to state that no, I truly don't believe I could have ruined a round for multiple people by using a method of testing to figure out a dispute. The round being ruined for anyone who died as a result of said testing rests solely on your Admins poor judgment and quick banning
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#10
-Also are you saying that regardless of current suspicion we should follow the orders of a superior officer?

Yes. That's exactly how superior officers work. And no, we do not have many problems with people assisting antags because of this. I think Ive only seen that happen once and it wasn't even an officer doing it.

- Also please elaborate on how me checking the suspected of what they have been suspected of can in any way ruin the round for several people?

Players generally do not want to be arrested. Arresting them without reasonable suspicion is definitely annoying for the arrestee. While the blood visual effect can be seen as a decent reason you should have then spent a moment double checking what happened and realized there was no evidence of a crime. The clown especially was arrested without any evidence of wrongdoing.

- From my actions alone the only harm done was exposing someone who was suspected to have committed a crime, as a antagonists (Be that the actual person or not). The real harm was done by the Admin banning me before I could have finished administering first-aid, and ruinning a round by allowing someone to die because of his lack of judgment and rather unprofessional quick banning without any time for explanation.

The person you exposed never had evidence against them in the first place. It was sheer dumb luck that you got a vampire. And a second crewmember was arrested similarly with no reason.

As for the alleged false banning reasons - we looked at the logs and they show what we have previously posted. The logs dont lie.

As for the previous notes - we take previous issues into account when issuing bans. Looking at these is standard practice.

As a final statement - we have looked into the situation and found that while Wonk may have banned quickly his reasoning for a short ban was justified. I believe that at this point the ban has expired, and we ask that you please keep the rules in mind while playing in the future.
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#11
At this point I'm rather over replying to these and trying to help any of you see reason. You and the others who have replied here either don't actually address anything properly or only addresses the things which you think you can back up. Not to mention a lot of what has been said either contradicts other things that have been said, completely ignores other facts about the situation and states something which I then have to reply to again when all you had to do was not ignore the other facts about the situation and actually not contradict yourself.

You say in one sentence confirming we have to listen to superior officers, but then in the next reply down you completely go against what you just posted and tell me the Clown was especially arrested without evidence or wrong doing.
So do you just forget things when it suits you or do you honestly think that these things you post are not contradicting?
At this point it's getting rather tiring to repeat facts about the situation because you either didn't actually read everything that happened like you said you did, or you just forget a whole lot. (So this is the last reply on here from me)
The Captain himself told me to arrest the Clown, I'm finding it hard to understand how you can completely ignoring that and keep bringing up the me arresting the Clown, like I was the one who claimed he committed a crime and called for his arrest, It was the Captain who did that. Don't know what you want me to do when you tell me to listen and obey a superior officer, but then use it against me when I do exactly that and when it suits you.

Also you said someone having their blood sucked is a decent reason to be suspicious of someone and I should have double checked. Which is exactly what I did because the very person who I suspected of being a Vampire was calling for the arrest of the Clown and he was also the Captain. I can't ignore a Captains order but I still have to check him because he is under suspicion of being a Vampire. What more am I supposed to check? He would have said the same thing and because they're both under suspicion now they both could be lying and as all the Visual evidence suggests (Which you said was a decent reason) pointed to the Captain being a Vampire. Do you not understand that people lie and if they're under suspicion that's even more of a reason to not just believe them and instead check them properly?

Also its irrelevant that he was a Vampire by dumb luck because we're arguing about the process of me arresting them and going about trying to resolve said situation. So I don't know why you all think it even matters when talking about how to handle that situation.

Also you haven't even attempt to address the false ban reasoning and again like Wonk did straight up lie about what happened. I have a screen shot which I posted that very clearly shows that he was alive at the time of Wonk was going through the process of banning me, and that I was very clearly trying to heal him.

Also what logs show that the "meta gamey" reason is valid? I still haven't go a single response confirming that anyone using items on the station to identify someone as a creature or not is a valid reason for a ban.

Also yes obviously looking at prior notes is the standard practice when dealing out a punishment, but is posting it in retaliation to a complaint about a ban/Admins judgment also standard practice?? especially when it wasn't a part of the conversation in any way and was brought up out of seemingly nowhere. it was stated that regardless of the previous notes the outcome would have been the same, and it's not even a part of this situation so why would you bring it up?
But we both know why anything unrelated is brought up and that is to discredit any argument made against a Admin decision to said person, because you want to make it seem like its a common thing for that person to do in those situations and get people onto your side.

There is no logical reason to bring it up unless I myself who was banned mentioned it or it was a reason for the current decision (Which it was stated it wasn't) as to make the ban more valid. It's a pretty sneaky tactic to get people to side with you but also rather pathetic.
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