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HOS Application: SRQ
I've had quite a few rounds in the past with Angela as an officer and myself as the HoS. I don't personally think they'd make a good HoS right now based on the experiences I've had with them when they were sec. HoS is a role primarily about communicating with people, be it with fellow officers or with the crew or with antags that have been caught, and I never really saw Angela doing this. Sometimes I would forget they were sec because they never really reported in stuff over sec comms or talked about what was going in, and I think the most important skill an HoS can have is coordinating people.

They're not a bad player, but I've never seen them as good sec. Maybe not awful sec, but not really what I personally think an HoS should be like.

"I have seen everything in my long career in security from the recent new-wave of horrifyingly bad nerds that chose sec as their first job" - I also don't agree with the tone behind this, and I think the general attitude displayed by them in relation to really new security players isn't ideal for an HoS. It can be frustrating when somebody is new and in the role and having difficulty playing but the HoS should (ideally) be really patient and helpful to those players. Part of the role is teaching newbie sec players how to do basic things and how to not harmbaton themselves, and I can anecdotally say they've been kind of rude to newer players struggling with mechanics.

Once again, I don't think SRQ is a bad player, and I don't think they're incapable of being a good HoS, I just don't think they're ready for it right now. My opinion here would change if I saw them communicating more often as sec, more actively fostering a sense of teamwork when they play sec and being kinder to newer sec players. 

No from me.
From what I've seen of Angela as sec (and in general), most of the time they seem to either AFK or suicide early. When they do play, as Flaborized said, they don't seem to communicate much or work together with other players.

I also agree that it's important to have a welcoming and patient attitude towards new players, especially new sec players, and as others have mentioned, it doesn't really seem like this is something SRQ has.

This is all just from my experience, but I'm gonna say no.
I can certainly promise to communicate and not biblefart if I choose to be HOS for that round, I'm only going to wear the beret if I'm going to be invested in the round.
What the heck, get this woman a beret immediately!!
(05-15-2019, 07:41 PM)DyssalC Wrote: [Image: CbuiEJm.png]

This leaves a real bad taste. The mindset at play here is not one I'd be comfortable with in a HoS. One might say:

(05-16-2019, 04:08 AM)OMJ Wrote: this isn’t behavior befitting a mentor, sure, but they aren’t applying for that. We also shouldn’t police people on what they want to do as a traitor; it is free reign to be a dick.

People are free to do as they will as antagonists, yes. People are also free to make their own judgments based off of someone's actions and the motives behind those actions in an application thread. As it happens using pre-round OOC to seek out a group that is specifically new and learning in order to kill them, then upholding that action as a great exploit, gives a bad impression. It isn't behavior befitting a mentor, and I think it isn't befitting an HoS either. I say no.
I get it, it can definitely be interpreted as a dick move but the reason I feel comfortable telling that story is because everyone involved had a good time. Everyone laughed, it's not like they quit SS13 forever. Frankly I think it's unfair to judge me based on a post on discord talking about actions made two years ago instead of actions ingame or directly applicable to the role.

Secondly the idea of this event, and my off-hand commentary on discord being a permanent "you can never be HOS" mark I find callous. Three years ago I was the sort to just rampage on each server until I was banned and have a good laugh with a group of toxic 'friends' I've since moved on from, are we going to judge peoples permanent character based on singular and past actions? I ideologically despise that sort of thinking and I think this community, as otherwise welcoming as I've seen it be, can do better.

I do admit to being too much of a butt to new officers though and I'll work on being more welcoming towards them, unless they do outright malicious things. I was a harmbatoning shitter once too, after all.
People need to remember that everyone was a shit at one point. Hell OMJ use to be permabanned/Sploded because of how much of a shitter he was. Such a fucking griefer.
HoS isn't some paragon of virtue. Hell in lore the HoS was canned for being a shit and then replaced and finally given back the job.
Everyone makes mistakes, and the thing that separates good from bad experiences is our willingness to learn from them.  However, you seem to be interested in defending something that, were it to happen to me in a game I'm brand new in, would make me swear off the game for good.  I've had games like Dota 2 and Rust ruined for me not because of my inability to play the game, but because of other people kicking me while I was down like this situation could have been.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't care about this thing you did two years ago.  I care about the fact that you don't seem to see the actual issue people have and aren't admitting that people might be negatively impacted by similar examples of this "best traitor round".  What it tells me is that you were willing to target people who said they were trying to learn aspects of the game.  What's to stop you from hunting down and execute an antagonist with absolutely everything in your arsenal when all they did was accidentally drop their PDA on the traitor uplink.

I'm giving this one a heavy Neigh.
I already posted my yey, but just to add in my thoughts again - If this engineering microbombing shenanigans happened while SRQ was playing security or a non-antag role I would be concerned - that wasnt the case. I would argue that if anything this demonstrates that SRQ has a good understanding of the mechanisms, both in game and social, that make this game fun and allow for surprises.

With all that said, if issues did appear while they were HoS my tone would be different. I really feel that mentor applications and HoS applications were separated for a reason.
(Yesterday, 04:10 AM)Recusor Wrote: With all that said, if issues did appear while they were HoS my tone would be different. I really feel that mentor applications and HoS applications were separated for a reason.

yes, I agree wholeheartedly- also regarding the need for communication, I've never once seen it as a problem w/Angela. It might be because I kinda put it on the cops to speak back to me but I don't see that as a problem going forward if she was to be bereted.

She's well cognizant of that she needs to step her shit up as a HoS in regards to communication.

Also, in regards to the "horrifyingly bad nerds who pick sec as their first job", I don't see that as even remotely disparaging. Poorly worded, yeah, but I'm positive that she was speaking about the people who just sign up as sec to terrorize folks/power-trip/be a dick (phenomenon that was well documented in my "make sec time restricted threat). I don't think it was meant to be in the sense of condescending to people who are new to SS13/sec & want to learn/ people who aren't adept w/game mechanics yet.

i've played w/ them enough to know that they'd be good w/the beret & I think this case would be a good example of giving someone it & then evaluating them as they play HoS.

The worst case scenario is that the hat can be quickly rescinded. I'll put in a strong vouch for saying it won't.

(i'd even wager she was one of the less than ten cops who I'd see as a HoS and feel immediate relief knowing I had help in the round but w/e)
While I don't think HoS applications are the place to discuss previous traitor rounds it does bring up the issue of using OOC knowledge to your IC advantage. As this happened a few years ago I'd assume that you haven't done that as often today. While not exactly against the rules it is still a pretty sketchy thing to do.

SRQ strikes me as the type of person that would robust someone to death for holding a toy lightsaber, but I'm sure they know how, and when to tone it down.

SRQ has shown that they have an extensive amount of security experience, and I don't see why they shouldn't be a HoS.
I would only robust someone for holding a toy lightsaber if it was mutually comical for both of us. I'd just as easily let someone with an actual saber carry it openly if they said it was a toy. It's all relative to the moment.

In any case, on the point of not communicating enough as sec- yeah there's rounds I'm pretty quiet, or off on my own thing. When I'm playing as space rent-a-cop I'm generally not concerned with leading the department unless I want to step it up, and if I've chosen the beret for that round I've already made that decision. I don't see a real problem with sec officers not leading the place- that's not their job.

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