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repurposing security
#16
Sec shouldn't be tasked with catching traitors. I mean, they aren't, and they should if they want to, but their primary thing should be to be someone you can trust not to be secretly a spacedick. Maybe move a lot more of their focus on increased survivability to be more able to help save people than beat up bad guys would be a start.

Shift antag wasting back to the POOPs or the BUTTs or whatever they were called, those powergaming turdbags that the station would call in when shit hit the fan.
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#17
I stopped playing security for two reasons. People stopped playing the role with me and almost every time I played the same people made my rounds hell and no matter how many times I adminhelp them they were never punish.

It’s a community issue that is never going to change. Not unless the powers that be start punishing players for fucking with security to the extreme.

I’ve voiced the same complaints and issues you see people post 90% now back in 2016 and was told by people who never played with me that I was too no fun. Then the start of 2017 mass amounts of players here reported the same complaints. But it was too little too late. It’s engrained in the community’s minds that fucking with security even if they cross the metagaming threshold is okay and to be expected of them. So until it’s shown these players get punished, I won’t play the role. The community’s awfulness and security players being abandoned by the admins has killed any enjoyment I had with my favorite role.

Now I just main HoP and hope for a antag role and rampage.

(10-03-2018, 04:21 PM)Superlagg Wrote: Shift antag wasting back to the POOPs or the BUTTs or whatever they were called, those powergaming turdbags that the station would call in when shit hit the fan.

They were called The TURDS.
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#18
If people go out of their way to fuck with a sec officer, they can't complain when that sec officer beats them half to death and removes 1-3 of their limbs.

You're right that tasers are a joke at the moment, though.
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#19
That's the thing, like anything that would actually fix security will ruin the fun for other players.

Sec players: "Tasers are slow, inaccurate, and don't last nearly long enough both in ammo and duration!" Admins: "Okay, we'll make tasers fast, laser accurate, and we've tripled the battery and stun duration now lasts five real world minutes." Antags: "This is bullshit, I can't get anything done as I'm being tased!" Non antags: "oh my god I was stunned nearly the entire round because I farted on a shitcurity and then a ling ate my head nerf plz"

You can't win.

The non antag players who are going out of their way to fuck with a sec officer, by the way? These are also the same people who are really good at the game and the only reason they're fucking with sec officers in the first place is because they know they're not going to get arrested because they're that good. Even if they do somehow get brigged they know worst case scenario they're in there for, what, five minutes tops? And released sooner if there is an emergency or something?

Antags are even more trivial towards sec. Honestly, when was the last time you saw a Security Officer (not the HOS) be successful in stopping an antag? Counter that number with how many got their shit royally pushed in followed by bombing the entire security department and stealing everything out of the armory. How many times has that happened and a CHANGELING was the one doing the bombing? I bet it's more than sec actually stopping an antag. To a good antag, security officers are literally walls made of player.

Sec sucks. I say replace sec as a department with a bitchin' nightclub complete with dancing and drinks and a superstar DJ and replace sec as a team with more Guardbuddies and Beepskies and Sentry Bots and Drones and whatever else we have as robo-NPCs, have them all controlled by the HOS like it's Dungeon Keeper or something. Then call it a day. That's my final word on the matter. smile
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#20
Sec can be fun, but you gotta treat it with a very strict sense of fairplay. You have to know when to let things go stop things before they cross a line. Unfortunately there are a few players that will really test you to do that when you try to get them to tow the line about having their fun at others expense, but it comes with the territory.

(10-03-2018, 04:21 PM)Superlagg Wrote: Maybe move a lot more of their focus on increased survivability to be more able to help save people than beat up bad guys would be a start.

That's honestly how I feel about the role and the direction they should go in. These guys aren't the police, they're a crisis management squad. The priority isn't to catch the bad guy, it's to minimize their damage. It's just catching them is a good way to do that.

More related to the idea: I think it would be nice if there was a machine in the Sec Room that was self service

Inserting a Security ID lets you assign yourself a designated role, that gives you a more specialized level of access and abilities related to Sec work. 

For instance, a medical, engineering, research, and civilian department Sec that gets Full access to their assigned department, barring Command restricted areas. However, they trade away some of the general access levels they had in other departments.

Maybe they also gain some additional skills related to their specialization, like being able to assess injuries by sight instead of needing a medical scanner

Essentially, the concept of cyborg modules, but for Sec officers
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#21
Frank, I think that idea has some merit. I feel like it could possibly lead to some sec officers just taking it to get to be a Medical Security Officer or Research Security Officer and then just playing genetecist or tele sci nerd. But honestly, it probably wouldn't make the common sec officer any more useless, but it could make it more popular. What different roles did you have in mind?
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#22
(10-03-2018, 05:15 PM)Ed Venture Wrote:
(10-03-2018, 04:21 PM)Superlagg Wrote: Shift antag wasting back to the POOPs or the BUTTs or whatever they were called, those powergaming turdbags that the station would call in when shit hit the fan.

They were called The TURDS.

and honestly they aren't far from what we have now; a group of regulars taking turns powergaming eachother.
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Sec ain't coming back. It's a culture thing now. "Stopping an antag is antifun", "You ruined the antag's round", etc.

I'm more for nerfing the powergame. Make it so a pubbie with a toolbox isn't a McNugget or a liability, but a threat or an asset. Let sec be the trustworthy (???) mallcops they were meant to be. Donut(2) days are over.
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#23
I know I said it was my last word on the subject buuuuuuuut...
(10-04-2018, 10:25 AM)Vitatroll Wrote: Let sec be the trustworthy (???) mallcops they were meant to be. Donut(2) days are over.
Maybe that's how we fix Security and make people start playing again: The Security Antagonist Role! Think about it: there are such things as bad cops, current US political climate aside, and what better way to get people playing Security again than special Syndcurity traitor items! I know the whole thing with Security as stated before was "security can never be an antag therefore we know we can trust them" but how many times have we heard on the news of badge wearing men and women committing worse crimes than the people they arrest? The only person in the entire game we know for a fact as a trustworthy upstanding person being the Head of Security, a position that within the servers you HAVE to earn, makes absolutely 100% sense to me.

Now I'll shut up.
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#24
No one trusts security anyways
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#25
(10-04-2018, 12:46 PM)Skunkrocker Wrote: ...The Security Antagonist Role!...

In my opinion the low point of playing sec is dealing with nonantags who like to fuck with sec and the high point of playing sec is using cooperation and teamwork with fellow competent officers to track down an equally competent and evil antag. Allowing officers to be antags would make people more willing to fuck with sec (that officer could be a traitor!!) and it would make real cooperation between officers much more difficult because you wouldn't be able to trust anybody. The detective is already a sec role that you can't really trust, making every officer untrustworthy would spoil what I consider to be the most rewarding part of security. 

I believe that security makes antag's rounds much more fun so long as the players playing sec understand that this is a game and that everyone is playing to have fun. Going up against a five-man sec team as a ling is much more engaging than steamrolling a crew that has no sec at all or dying to some random scientist who carries a hellchem glass. Sec also has a lot of room for improving antag's rounds that would otherwise be over. (Cloning dead wizards and holding phony witch trials comes to mind.) 

I believe to some extent that not many people play security because not many people play security. Having a good time in security depends on having a good team to cooperate with, more so than any other role in the game. People seem generally more willing to play as sec when you say "Hey I'm gonna play sec let's all play sec" in OOC from what I can tell, which might be helpful to consider when thinking about why people don't want to play sec. It would be cool if you could press a "be sec" button before the round starts that would make you 100% a sec officer and display that this coming shift is going to have at least one officer. Just something to let people know that security isn't going to be empty and they can depend on someone else being sec with them would go a long way I feel. Or at least it would entice me to play sec more often.
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#26
Well said Flaborized. You captured why I loved security so much in this post.

I also think your idea is wonderful.
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#27
I think a neat option would be a neighborhood watch style thing where players in other departments have the chance to be trustworthy backup sec without being sec right away. It might cut into rev and gang rounds but having trustworthy players for sec to call into duty when poop hits the fan might make sec more tolerable while letting people be helpful but not miss out on science or growing mutant food.

Like a antag role thats entirely beneficial because they are given the objective to help respond to emergencies.
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#28
(10-04-2018, 10:03 AM)kyle2143 Wrote: Frank, I think that idea has some merit. I feel like it could possibly lead to some sec officers just taking it to get to be a Medical Security Officer or Research Security Officer and then just playing genetecist or tele sci nerd. But honestly, it probably wouldn't make the common sec officer any more useless, but it could make it more popular. What different roles did you have in mind?

That'd be fine if that's what they wanna do with their downtime

As far as what specific things they might get as a chem/medical/engineering/Civilian cop... I'm at a bit of a loss
  • Medical is easy enough, you can make it so they are better at stabilizing people and resisting disease
  • Research maybe they are more Forensically inclined, better at picking up physical evidence like fingerprints
  • Engineering I think would be more about hostile environments and explosives, so more environmental resistances
  • Civilian I think would be mostly about interpersonal skills and knowing who the crew are. Maybe seeing past disguises?
  • And standard cop should be a bit of everything
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#29
(10-04-2018, 01:45 PM)Flaborized Wrote:
(10-04-2018, 12:46 PM)Skunkrocker Wrote: ...The Security Antagonist Role!...

I believe to some extent that not many people play security because not many people play security. Having a good time in security depends on having a good team to cooperate with, more so than any other role in the game. People seem generally more willing to play as sec when you say "Hey I'm gonna play sec let's all play sec" in OOC from what I can tell, which might be helpful to consider when thinking about why people don't want to play sec. It would be cool if you could press a "be sec" button before the round starts that would make you 100% a sec officer and display that this coming shift is going to have at least one officer. Just something to let people know that security isn't going to be empty and they can depend on someone else being sec with them would go a long way I feel. Or at least it would entice me to play sec more often.

I like the idea; I've seen this it floated around before as well, but I think it would be a bit trickier in practice. For one thing, currently selecting security as a top choice does not override being selected as an antag. But pressing that button might turn some people off of it, even if not everyone who wants to play sec NEEDS to click it. Perhaps having a button for it and an announcement will make it more likely. Having said that, I think it's a good idea that could help, but it doesn't really fix any inherent flaws in security.


(10-05-2018, 09:12 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote:
  • Medical is easy enough, you can make it so they are better at stabilizing people and resisting disease
  • Research maybe they are more Forensically inclined, better at picking up physical evidence like fingerprints
  • Engineering I think would be more about hostile environments and explosives, so more environmental resistances
  • Civilian I think would be mostly about interpersonal skills and knowing who the crew are. Maybe seeing past disguises?
  • And standard cop should be a bit of everything

I was referring more to the different jobs that should get new access, and how giving out access should be handled.

- Should a medical sec officer have access to all medbay except the MD's office?
- Should there be a Janitorial sec officer? A Mechanic sec officer? A Hydroponic's sec officer? Or maybe just a civilian sec officer that has access to bar/kitchen/hydoponics/janitor/chapel. I'm not sure what would be better.

As for those benefits, aside from the picking up fingerprint's on examine, they sound sort of undoable if you ask me, especially for such an experimental change. Doctors/Roboticists/MDs already have the "medical training" trait that lets them perform surgery better. The Barman, Captain, and HoS all have the alcohol resist trait (I think). But those are because they rolled that job. Adding/deleting skills from players just for having their ID switched and recolored in a machine doesn't really make sense to me thematically. If you wanted to do that, you would really be better off creating whole new sec jobs to pick, like "Medical Sec", "Research Sec" and that doesn't really track with me.
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#30
(10-05-2018, 08:53 AM)atomic1fire Wrote: I think a neat option would be a neighborhood watch style thing where players in other departments have the chance to be trustworthy backup sec without being sec right away. It might cut into rev and gang rounds but having trustworthy players for sec to call into duty when poop hits the fan might make sec more tolerable while letting people be helpful but not miss out on science or growing mutant food.

Like a antag role thats entirely beneficial because they are given the objective to help respond to emergencies.

The anti antag! I like that!

"You're a VIGILANTE! Your job is to hunt down any antagonists towards the station crew. Your objective is simple: any antagonists by the end of the round need to be either dead or in prison. Keep in mind: THIS IS NOT AN ANTAGONIST ROLE. Killing non antagonists is still against the rules!"

Like Tommy Jarvis is Friday the 13th: The Game.
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