Ideas of Questionable Quality: Security Edition

[Wisecrack34]

Noticed that every Sec thread gets derailed into people posting random ideas and forgetting OP had one so why not make a thread dedicated to those bad ideas (Maybe it will get derailed into actually decent ideas for sec, who knows). If you ever get an idea for how to fix sec and want to slap it on someone else's sec thread take a breath, read the rules, then post it here instead.

Ill kick it off with buffing Sec armor to be ling proof, any trust a player may have had in sec is lost the second a Ling is reported in the North West on Cog 1, making Sec harder to eat than regular staff makes SOOOO much sense it hurts not to have it in AND it'll boost Sec's reputation as "The Good Guys"

[The Grim Sleeper]

quality post about why Security should be immune to subversion.Spoiler!

I'm going to go with an pretty out there suggestion and say that the problem isn't security as a role, but rather changelings and mindslaves. Yes, really. Hear me out here: What's the one big difference between a redshirt and some random vigilante?

It's not equipment; there's all sorts of ways for a vigilante to get their hands on a taser or a stun baton. It's not skill, because anyone can be a regular security officer. It's not access, because the HoP gives all access away like candy these days.

The big difference, the reason why Security exists in the first place, is that the redshirts are 100% guaranteed not to be antagonists at roundstart. As an ordinary spaceman, seeing a redshirt is supposed to mean that you can relax and let your guard down - the reshirt isn't going to randomly ambush you and neither will anyone else with them in the room. Or, at least if they do, they'll think long and hard about how to take you both down without eating a face full of taser. Take two spacemen and put them in the same room and you'll see both of them back slowly away on the off chance the other guy is an antag. Add in a security officer and they can suddenly 'trust' each other to at least not try anything right that second. It's like having these little red islands of tranquility and civility roaming the station eating donuts.

Changelings and mindslaves ruin this by making it possible for you to run into antagonist security. There's no trust, no sense of safety, just more of the same suspicion and dread that comes with staring down any other heavily armed stranger in a dark maintenance tunnel. There's no safety in numbers anymore, so people try for safety in obscurity - they fuck off to whatever deserted corner of the map is least likely to get them murdered and hide there, not interacting with anyone or anything. Since everyone is alone and silent, we get silent rampages where people get picked off one by one. No witnesses, no reactions, mass apathy.

If you want to revitalize Security, the first step has got to be to do something to keep Security trustworthy all round long. If there's a officer hanging out at the bar and you can actually sit down next to them and be appropriately confident that they're not a ling and they're not going to devour your drunk ass, you can start nucleating public gatherings in public places again. Suddenly a bunch of giant brick walls get thrown up in front of rampagers - it's pretty easy to murder a geneticist 1v1 in the monkey pen, but it's hard to kill the bartender, a security officer and two greyshirts all at once without anyone ratting you out. But in order for that to happen, there needs to be at least a couple people on the station with a bright red sign painted on their back that credibly claims they're 100% guaranteed not to be the person trying to kill you and that it's okay to be in the same room with them without constantly being on your guard.

I agree with making Security resistant to changelings and mindslaving.

 I feel maybe we should go one step further: make it so that a person in a red shirt CANNOT be anything other then a Security officer; make the Red Uniform simply fall off anybody who isn't an officer.

[Frank_Stein]

Armor sting proof, start em off with mindslave blocking implants on top of their health ones

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I think, what would really help me as Sec, are more things to gather Intel before making moves against people.

The worst thing about vigilantes from a Sec perspective is they are indistinguishable from actual perps most of the time. They tend to always be at the scenes of crimes, have several people intentionally or not telling me suspicious things about them, and be armed with homemade weapons or even antagonist gear they took from a victim.

I'll arrest them under a strong suspcions, see all the shit they have, and really have no choice but to think they shouldn't be let go.

They'll say they're innocent, but so will antags when caught, and it's hard to get reliable information to exonerate them

[The Grim Sleeper]

The worst thing about vigilantes from a Sec perspective is they are indistinguishable from actual perps most of the time.

But is vigilantism itself a problem or a solution? If it is a viable option to bolser the strength of Sec, there should be means to do background checks and tools/permits to sanction vigilants.

Afaik it is not though. Should it be?

[Frank_Stein]

The worst thing about vigilantes from a Sec perspective is they are indistinguishable from actual perps most of the time.

But is vigilantism itself a problem or a solution? If it is a viable option to bolser the strength of Sec, there should be means to do background checks and tools/permits to sanction vigilants.

Afaik it is not though. Should it be?

I don't have a problem with the existence of vigilantes. I think they serve a role. It's telling them apart that's difficult

Like I said, any tool that can helps make that distinguish easier would be very helpful.

I'd love for a better way to track people over the cameras. A lot of times I have a running list of people of interest but not enough proof to tie them to anything.

If I could covertly observe them for a bit that would go a bit more towards gathering that much needed proof.

Though, I would also love for a foolproof way to vet other crew members. Maybe a time based machine that runs a background check that definitively answers whether or not they are an antag. 

You couldn't run it on everyone, but you could use it on people you had suspicions over, or people that you wanted to add to your web of trust. Having trusted vigilantes or being able to recruit informants to act as plants and create sting operations would be really fun

[The Grim Sleeper]

Maybe a time based machine that runs a background check that definitively answers whether or not they are an antag. 

You couldn't run it on everyone, but you could use it on people you had suspicions over, or people that you wanted to add to your web of trust. Having trusted vigilantes or being able to recruit informants to act as plants and create sting operations would be really fun

I like this. A 'Crime Computer'.
What if you could insert some evidence you found on a crime-scene to influence the timer?

There is the thing of a 1/server-pop chance of 'you haven't done anything bad (that we know of), but the Computer says you are an Antag, so u git brig'. But I would consider that an unlucky breaks for an Antag (and bad form for the Guards on duty), rather then a real issue. It's not like 'bad luck' is not a know and accepted factor on Goonstation.

<hr>
Another idea: what if we allowed security guards to 'Call the NT special forces'?
If somebody goes on a mad rampage and kills half the station, the guard on duty (let's not get too optimistic on number people playing the role) can push a button, and a few of the dead people will respawn with armor and big guns?
I know this horribly violates the 'no respawns'-principle, but this 'a questionable quality, anything can be suggested'-thread.

<hr>
Auto-Warden: Works like the brig-chute, but also: strips people of their gear, puts that gear into an specific-ID-card locker, sets their ID to not have Prsion Access, suits them up in an orange jumpsuit and keeps track of the sentence time per person (rather then the current 'whomever gets to the parole-chute first').

[Frank_Stein]

Yeah, I imagine it being liked how in games like Werewolf you can check other players cards to find out if they are a villager or werewolf.

If the thing takes like, 10 minutes to spit out an answer, I'd like to think players would be inclined not to use it frivolously and wait until they can make an educated guess.

Maybe there's a Detective version that works faster, but a traitor detective can have it give out false results. I've always thought those guys should have better Intel gathering methods at the cost of less firepower and a general shadiness about them

[The Grim Sleeper]

Damn it, there have been thousnads of 'how to improve Sec' threads. How come i can't find any of them now and add links to their ideas here.

[amaranthineApocalypse]

Damn it, there have been thousnads of 'how to improve Sec' threads. How come i can't find any of them now and add links to their ideas here.

Because none of them were actually how to improve sec threads, people just kept fucking derailing them.

:salt:

[Ed Venture]

Damn it, there have been thousnads of 'how to improve Sec' threads. How come i can't find any of them now and add links to their ideas here.

Because none of them were actually how to improve sec threads, people just kept fucking derailing them.

:salt:

Not true at all some security threads lead to things like sec belts getting made, cogmap1's armory getting reworked/redesigned and QoL changes. It's safe to assume most security threads just become a general security thread once the first topic gets discussed. Which is what happen to your thread. Most of us thought it was a bad idea, we discussed it and moved on. It did not help your thread that a lot of us have a lot of frustration as the role descends into obscurity and lack of admin attention to the various issues security has these days. Trying to say none of those threads did anything cause your thread did not go the way you wanted is dumb and ignores what little progress that has been done in recent years. Just like it was dumb when you tried to take down people's points against your idea by attacking their status and time spent here.

[PH77SER]

what about having sec players get some sort of bonus thing like spacebux? sec gets a super high bux salary and a bonus for getting antags in the prison or killed antags!

or how about sec exclusive shit that only sec can ever get and no greytider can find and/or get barring killing a police officer? like a squeaky baton that knocks down people, or backup guard NPC's that help the mall cop do his job, like a beepsky that follows you around and cuffs people, or a beepsky that's controlled by a ghost!

maybe include a security uplink that lets you buy stuff? the possibilities are endless

[Ed Venture]

I really like the thought of in game rewards for security. It could tie in with the equipment that was mentioned earlier today that would make Security sting and implant proof.

[Grek]

RE: a crime computer, I think it should A] be something the detective uses, B] be fooled by disguises, and C] be good for finding out if someone is innocent, but awful at finding out who the guilty person is.

Implementation: You enter photograph and the computer starts churning away. Every five minutes, it does a check: If the the person is innocent, there is a 50% chance to conclude that they are innocent and print out results saying that the testee is probably not a criminal. Otherwise (if they're an antagonist or if you got the 50% chance of inconclusive), it requests a new photograph (of the same person, or a different person; must be taken within the last 10 minutes) and gets back to work.

After one photograph of an innocent person, you have even odds of finding out they're a good guy. After two failed photographs, 25% chance that they're innocent. Three photographs, 12%. But you have to know where the person is and you have to take a picture of them - giving that possible antagonist a heads up that you're suspicious.

[Gannets]

spacebux-esque sec rewards

I've been thinking down this route recently too.

[warcrimes]

Can someone please remove the apostrophe on "Idea's" it's driving me insane.