consider scaling antag powers more significantly to server population

[misto]

to a degree this already happens because ones that rely on gobbling ppl up for powers have less food the less ppl there are, but they also have much less opposition and easier time getting what food there is

anyways scale # of telecrystals syndies and traitors get to server pop

maybe consider shifting cooldowns on wiz and ling shit on server pop

idk enough about wraiths those fuckers are weird

probably best to calc it on connected players rather than roundstart ready players in case of lazy daisies hanging back to see what gimmick jobs are available, hope that observers/afks dont skew shit too much

if u can arrange so that if a big chunk of late joiners suddenly arrives they get a surge in their power/tcs it might be nice but u have no way of knowing if they still have their uplinks or whatver so ultimately as ever they will have to rely on ingenuity and experience to overcome unexpected additional opposition

wat do u think?

[NateTheSquid]

i wanna say good idea misto but that just seems like a meme now. i like it

[Vitatroll]

I agree, while also acknowledging how much of a PITA balancing is.

Most game modes are still balanced around donut level pop. If you're not happy-go-lucky about it, and actually do a tryhard run, then there's very little the station can do to stop you without the help of a turbonerd who actually cares to try.

[HydroFloric]

I like it but if it gets implemented it should have a limit incase instead of just scaling forever. No one wants to see a no cooldown cluwne wiz

[misto]

current antag levels seem like a reasonable capping point considering they were balanced around having 40-60 ppl packing the place

[atamusvaleo]

Bad idea, misto.

Well, not bad but I disagree with it. Telecrystals available to traitors and the cost of traitor gear have a direct correlation: preventing someone from being overpowered with too many high powered items. Likewise for wizard, ling, and wraith ability cooldowns. 

If people are going to rampage or stealth kill, they'd probably do just as much damage on a higher pop server, it would just take longer and there would be more chaos elsewhere to add to or distract from said killer.

If anything, make them hard-mode traitors on low server populations. That's about the only concession I find reasonable.

[misto]

"it would just take longer" is not something to handwave away. every confrontation bears the possibility of a slipup costing you your life and it "just taking longer" means more and more opportunities for just such a mistake.

lesser numbers means the mobs of old rarely descend on you. the lack of suspicious eyes and ears about is a boon to killers of every kind

lower pop numbers skews the balance in favor of antags more than ever, and implementing automated scaling mechanics will help address it while also meaning that you wont have to manually rebalance everything again if a player base surge should happen

but sure, hardmode traitors is a mechanic that already exists and can be used. but what would a hardmode ling or hardmode wizard or hardmode wraith look like?

[atamusvaleo]

In regards to hard-mode, I was referring only to human traitors.

Eh, I get your reasoning but it hasn't changed my opinion on this. It still doesn't address the issue that skewing telecrystal numbers/ability cooldowns completely throws off the balance put in place to not put the antag at a total disadvantage.

What happens if server pop rises midround? Now this antag is at a major disadvantage having their cooldowns nerfed.

[Sundance]

I agree with atamus, along with balancing cooldowns sounds a massive PITA.

Just reduce the amount of antagonists across the board per round by -1. So one less antagonist per round. That might alleviate the issues misto raises.

[Vitatroll]

My main concern is with antags being balanced around donut-level pop. How it gets balanced doesn't really matter to me. It could be a combination of the ideas floating around, or just one. As said before, I'm taking a break because of the amount of winners there are.

Pretty sure a genetically enhanced ling with speed boots, meth belt, indy armor, cap id, rogue ai, and a backpack full of eguns set to taze would have been squished by admins way back when.

That's not exaggeration by the way. Though I think they ditched the speed boots for noslips.

[Superlagg]

Maybe some of the more bone-spree items could be pop-locked. Things like the c-saber and spacker could require a number of crew (or sec) capable of stopping them.

Course, I like the idea of arming the crew and teaching robustness. Just takes one crafty or lucky assistant to take down a Nerdy Collins.

[Noah Buttes]

Implementing scaling cooldowns and telecrystal counts sounds like a massive pain to balance. It also sounds like a good way to create inconsistent behavior and complaints about said behavior.

[Musketman12]

This is already balanced by number of antags in the round, I don't think there is a need to micro it all the way down to what gear the antags get. All it takes is 1 nerd with a taser and good aim to take down any antag.

[Ed Venture]

I agree with atamus, along with balancing cooldowns sounds a massive PITA.

Just reduce the amount of antagonists across the board per round by -1. So one less antagonist per round. That might alleviate the issues misto raises.

If anything if it comes to this I would like to just see this happen. I don't agree with nerfing Antags across the board like this. I mean it would hardly have a effect on me cause I tend to rampage with just disarm intent and a fire extinguisher but it would for other players.

[NateTheSquid]

hardmode traitors being an added thing to rotation on lowpop also sounds like an okay idea, and lower the chances for other stuff, maybe make it so if there's hardmode traitors there are no other types of antags? or at least no lings/normal traitors