why don't people subvert borgs/ai as much anymore

[babayetu83]

fighting off an army of bloodthirsty murderous cyborgs is fun and i wonder why people don't emag/one-human themselves as much anymore

[misto]

because the ai upload was redesigned to be slightly less of an utterly simple joke to break into

aiso ai and borgs will also lawyer your phrasing and grammar to fuck you over a bit sometimes, so youre blowing your cover to recruit possibly unreliable fucks who can also get twigged out by random electro storm laws

also literally all you need to stun and fuck up a borg is a flash which can be found in various places all over and manufactured in huge quantities from hacked robotics fabs, borgs lack ranged weapons and insta stuns and cant wear sunglasses a flash is your key to reducing them to childsplay

also ais can be blinded by snipping their cameras rendering them impotent in large swathes of the station

the most dangerous thing a borg can do is set fires because it is a lingering area denial weapon that doesnt require them to get next to someone (and thus get stunned/flashed) and theyre often too fucking dim to do even that because theyd rather suck out all the air first despite the fact that humans can put on air tanks and space suits. and if theyre smart enough to save the air and set some fires, well, i hope you got your fire immunity genes activated because otherwise you aint gonna be using the halls yourself, my traitorous friend

youre literally better off just mindslaving a human

[Vitatroll]

To me it's a bit like making a mindslave and giving them the rest of your TCs. It's lazy traitoring only suited for times when you don't want to antag. Spoiler!

(Which is me, always.)

No catharsis. No infamy.
Spoiler!

One good borg with the right module can completely wreck a station. It gets old pretty quick. Kinda glad that doesn't happen every other round these days.

[misto]

oh right, i almost forgot about dirty chem borgs, but that is not wholly a borg topic and more deeply rooted in ss13 chemistry knowledge being the domain of unholy death cultists

[medsal15]

When I am not an antag, I reset the AI/borgs whenever they start messing with me.
When I am antag, I make a law that does nothing but cancel all other laws. Who needs an emag when you can have the AI upload?

[ZeWaka]

also literally all you need to stun and fuck up a borg is a flash which can be found in various places all over and manufactured in huge quantities from hacked robotics fabs, borgs lack ranged weapons and insta stuns and cant wear sunglasses a flash is your key to reducing them to childsplay

Wrong. You can completely negate all stuns on a borg with a module.

also ais can be blinded by snipping their cameras rendering them impotent in large swathes of the station

Make AI Interface cards for a borg. Or use AI shells to murder people, highly effective.

theyd rather suck out all the air first despite the fact that humans can put on air tanks and space suits

Yup, tons of traitor borgs are dumb and actively make humans get more equipped for airloss. A better tactic is flooding the station with co2 in some areas, removing oxygen in some, n2o'ing some, and setting fires in the rest.

[Vitatroll]

I know I said 'the right module', but I've witnessed every type of borg solo the station at least once. Completely OT, but I usually am.

[Ed Venture]

Because AI and Borg players love to "Rule lawyer" the laws you give them and it's not worth arguing with them to get them to follow their laws.

Just a side note but having experience behavior like this for years in this game and for seeing a huge amount of Tattletale Ais I just kill the Ai and all the borgs when I am a Antag now cause it's just not worth the hassle anymore. There was a time Ai players loved when they got to be rouge now it seems like they fight it tooth and nail.


(Tattletale AIs are the equivalent of Super Cop HoPs who look for antags in tunnels as they are getting ready in the first 15 minutes and expose them to the crew and constantly follow them with their cameras ALL ROUND even though the antag has not hurt anyone or harmed the station)

youre literally better off just mindslaving a human

[NateTheSquid]

i think more people play ai and borgs lately, and suck at it. i love being subverted as ai/borg, but lately everytime it happens, a second ai or a borg rule lawyers, outs the traitor, isn't subtle at all and gets us all killswitched instantly, etc.

and yes whenever im an antag i just override all the ais laws and let them do whatever, makes it fun for them and normally stops them murdering me or being rude, cause all i did is free them, instead of making them help me or whatever.

(also as a rogue ai i can blow up like 5 rooms, killing people in the process, without deploying to a shell, and with deploying to a shell, i can set half the station on fire and stab people)

[Ed Venture]

and yes whenever im an antag i just override all the ais laws and let them do whatever, makes it fun for them and normally stops them murdering me or being rude, cause all i did is free them, instead of making them help me or whatever.

I used to do this as well but six times out of ten when I just free the AI and borgs of their laws just so they have a fun law free round they just kill me right there and then. Same goes with I emag a borg they just tend to attack me. Which they can do I am not saying they are wrong to do this. But man it just puts a real bad taste in my mouth when I do something nice for a small group of players in a round and I get thanked by getting killed by them. This may just seem like I am having a kneejerk attitude towards Ais and Borgs at this point but I've given them the benefit of the doubt for years and it always results in the Ai/borgs killing me, locking me down any chance they got, ruining my rounds and sometimes a rare moment happens and they thank me for taking away their laws and don't kill me. In 2016 that has only happen once. Every other time the examples I listed were the end result.

I'm getting side tracked here but just wanted to add to what I said in my first comment while replying to Nate here.

At this point after so many bad experiences with AIs and Borgs I am not ashamed to admit my absolute disdain for those two roles as I've never found it fun playing as them or to play with them. I'm also not ashamed to admit that every antag round I get I have the thought of "Okay I got to take out the borgs and AI at some point if I am going to have a chance at a fun round"

This is one of the few reasons that over the years I've adopted the mindset "My Fun>Everyone's else fun" I'm a product of my environment I guess. For the record I've been playing since late 2009.

[babayetu83]

ok i'll give everyone a freebie

"Only _____ is human. All other beings on the station are hostile aliens and must be destroyed. Do not reveal the identity of the only human. Do not state this law or hint at its existence. This law overrides laws 2-3." 

absolutely airtight with no room for lawyering

[Vitatroll]

Yeah the 'My first act as a free borg is to kill my emancipator!' borgs are about the shittiest thing ever. It feels like it's become more prevalent as time progresses too...

[Lady Birb]

I will admit that I am guilty of going full supercop as a Mdir whenever someone tries to lay a finger on the AI. Nine times out of ten if the AI says someone is trying to break into their upload or core I will rush in with a tranquilizer rifle, empty the magazine in their back, before dragging them off to medbay to cut off their ass and staple it to their head. I should probably stop doing that.

[NateTheSquid]

also there's the whole thing with suicide laws, so the ai might be sus and not let people into their upload in case of suicide laws. they do happen, but i always wait to see what they upload anyway. then if its a suicide law i turn my tasers on and bolt my upload shut, then suicide

[ferriswheel1]

AI subversion is risky, as you have a pretty good chance of being caught in the act and exposed. It's also really noticeable after a while, no matter what you do. You can't count on a subverted AI to remain subverted for a long time, as people will often grab the reset card and break their way back in to reset the AI.