These are the gamemodes/antags you're like to run into on Goonstation. The questions are simple:
1) If you like one of these modes, what aspect of that mode makes it fun for you?
2) What is the essence of that particular mode; the thing that defines the mode in your mind?
I'm not asking for all of them; just pick your favorites. I'm only really concerned with what makes a mode for you, and you alone; no other opinions matter. I'm not even asking for both questions to be answered; just whatever you feel like.
This is driven by resurgence of revolutionist. I noticed different people had different definitions of what makes rev, rev. The thing that, if taken from rev, causes rev to become something else. There were also disparities in what made rev fun for people.
Revolution is one of my favourite/hated game modes, because it can either be drawn out murder fest or a tense and exciting bit of team work. When both the heads of staff and the revolutionary heads work with their teammates to take each other down, it's quite a lot of fun. On the other hand, 10 minute rounds or 60 minute rounds due to heads hiding in lockers also sucks.
The essence of Rev rounds is both the clusterfuck of chaos and violence in the beginning and the (hopefully) eventual Iron Hand response of the Heads. Of course sometimes this doesn't work, especially when every third person immediately whines about how shitty rev mode is when they get converted or find out the round type but hey, you can't win 'em all.
12-11-2016, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2016, 07:13 PM by Mageziya. Edited 1 time in total.)
Favorite:
Traitor: It's basically a free license to kill/do whatever you want with some toys that can help you in your nefarious shenanigans. This is the single most basic and least structured gamemode that can exist, and is highly dependent on the players. I personally ignore objectives, but objectives are a great way to challange new players and teach them the game.
Changeling: It's a stealth challenge with a very clear directive. I love the tension and challenge of trying to flawlessly complete this (That is, never be found, or even have people realize that there's a changeling.), and the the reward at the end of going shambler on the shuttle. It's infrequent enough to not go stale. Recent changes have made it even more fun and engaging than before by allowing you to work with the people that you consume.
Wizard: You get to go hog wild and seed chaos among the station while the entire station tries to kill you at the same time. It's like a great game of cat and mouse, except that both sides are simultaneously the cat and the mouse. Despite that, objectives are oddly difficult, even if they're just "Kill these people."
Wraith: Disappointingly rare, and by far the most interesting antagonist in the entire game, and by far my favorite antagonist to play as. You are effectively the hand of god, and the station is at your whimsy. Sure, the station can fight back, but most of the time you're safe. You can manipulate the round in all sorts of weird ways that relate to the angtagonists: forming symbiosis with antagonists, unifying antagonists, blackmailing antagonists, deceiving people about who's an antagonist. The list goes on. This role is insanely fun and needs to be more common. Please, do something about it, I haven't seen a wraith round in months!
As a gamemode, mixed is fucking great because it can combine all of these at once! By far my favorite game-mode. Mixed also includes Vampires, which are like hard-mode changelings with more spells, but can have annoying objectives. Sometimes werewolves also appear, but they're completely broken and need to be utterly re-done to work. Predator also can appear here and needs some work, but its so rare that I don't even know what needs work with it.
Neutral:
Nuclear Operative: This can be a fun way to let loose and rampage if you're an operative, if you ignore the stress of trying to herd cats work with your teammates. Problem is that it's rather un-fun to play as a non-nukie, as you just end up dead without making an impact unless you're very well equipped, and the short time limit often doesn't let you become properly equipped to deal with them.
Blob: Like nuke ops, blob is fun to play, and can be a real challange in multi-tasking. It's boring though if the crew doesn't find you until you're an unstoppable powerhouse of slime. It's also extremely boring to fight against as a normal person. You just spam click forever and ever in a brutal war of attrition on both sides. There's nothing exciting about fighting a blob because its a blob.
Disaster is fun the first two or three times, and it mostly a solitary round where you hunker down and pray you'll be able to reach the shuttle. Feels like an admin gimmick round. It's so rare that it's basically a non-round.
Disliked:
Gang, Revolution, and Spy are all hot-messes that sound great on paper, but are terrible in application. They have the theme of incorporating large swathes of players (Able to be interpreted as either massive teams or self-antagging) while also having just too much ambiguity with these modes, which would be fine, except that there is either no consequence to collateral, or too much consequence to collateral. This leads to the antagonist side slaughtering everyone (Spy, no consequence to collateral.), winning without opposition (Rev, to much consequence to collateral, due to heads' fears of being banned over randomly killing people / uncertainty of who to kill.), or just mass confusion and dull activities (Gang, due to simultaneously having too little and too much consequence to collateral.).
And that covers about everything.
I will say that this discussion is very needed, because we need new gamemodes. The vast majority of game modes have been around since 2011 or earlier and are only slightly changed since then. Change for the sake of change isn't always good, but these game modes rely on basic concepts, which is what keeps them around forever, but is also what makes them dull after having had them since forever.
we been talking in ideas about trying to reboot rev. some good ideas there. also there are some ok ideas floating around for adding more variety to nuke, or a heist/sabotage mode based on nuke.
wraiths need improvement imo, and not just in more wraith powers like lots of people ask for, but also in more options for crew in detecting and harming the wraith
lings are strong as hell, but always save their shambling for the shuttle. it might be worthwhile to consider experimenting with like, different changeling classes (one that functions much like normal, one that sacrifices stealth mode powers or longer stealth power cooldown times for extra shambler buffness) to encourage more actual in-round shambler fights+feasts
(12-11-2016, 07:56 PM)misto Wrote: lings are strong as hell, but always save their shambling for the shuttle. it might be worthwhile to consider experimenting with like, different changeling classes (one that functions much like normal, one that sacrifices stealth mode powers or longer stealth power cooldown times for extra shambler buffness) to encourage more actual in-round shambler fights+feasts
12-11-2016, 08:39 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2016, 08:40 PM by misto. Edited 2 times in total.)
Normal gameplay:
Nuclear Emergency: i like it. its a straight up-fight usually but there is plenty of room for stealth and tricks, prepping the area. the nuke ops get to play with some rarely seen weapons and tools and drugs, the crew gets to unite and go hog wild. greatest downside is that the fun is always over so soon ;_;
Traitor: i like it. so much variety to be had between the approaches different traitors choose to take. so much potential for intersectional mayhem as traitors cross paths with each other, clash with security and crew. businesslike agents can complete their objectives with minimal muss and fuss and barely be noticed, or terrorists can ruin and depopulate the station. greatest downside is worrying that you might be hurting someone innocent and thus being terrified to pick a side when you walk in on a fight.
Changeling: i like it but it could use improvements. body horror bio powers are great concepts. would love to see more and more diversity of abilities and strategies build up over time, the classic sting->drag off->eat combo can get a bit repetitive!
Wizard: i like it. wizards are typically a rollicking good time. chases, action, strange spells and powers, golems, cluwnes, fart attacks, delightful
Blob: needs serious improvements and we all know it. there have been several threads all about it. its too all-or-nothing, the blob either gets squashed early or it typically gains too much momentum to ever be stopped, barring telesci combining with chemicals/explosives
Secret: secret like a box of chocolates you never know what you gonna get, but i always look forward to a probable good time
Mixed: delightful. seeing different antags interact and join forces or ruin each other or get hunted by the crew is great. mwah. lovely
Extended: errr uh i guess its nice for those solarium lads. i havent tagged along on many of those adventures...
Uncommon:
Gang: didnt like gang. minimal leadership, minimal drection, usually produced pathetic skirmishes rather than good mayhem
Disaster: do you mean like when everything turns purple and shit? its ok, it comes up so rarely it doesnt get run into the ground. could use more variety in the hazards and critters that hit the station
Revolution: i had some great fun times with rev mode, but also some crummy times. i pray that revolution can be salvaged and redeemed in a way pleasing or at least tolerable to most players. please see the ideas forum threads regarding it
Spy: should have just played that weird "too many cooks spoil the broth" song on loop every time spy came up, because that phrase described spy to a tee.
Individual Antags:
Wraith: ive given my thoughts on wraith in a post above
Predator: simply lacks qualities to differentiate him from a traitor. its cute to try to make movie references, but the predator, the few times i encountered it or played as it, was just way too wimpy. the whole point of the predator franchise was to encounter a warrior with technology far beyond your own that hunts you for sport, it is absolutely spoiled in ss13 where weird, wild, and deadly tech can be found or built with just a little effort.
Nuke I can understand ending the round, since it tends to end up destroying the station even when the crew wins. Blob, either the crew ganks it in the first few minutes, or they call the shuttle as the halls fill with gunk, so there's no real reason the round has to end when the blob dies. Just give a few dorks some TCs and get on with the round!
But! My favorite part of nuke and blob rounds is the stretch in the beginning of no antags. It's funny, everyone suspects each other off being bad, and then someone gets murdered in the bar because they look like a traitor but they're really just an idiot.
I've always thought that gang's appeal is having a team of people with low grade destruction.
I think gang would really benefit from being introduced into mixed or as late round antagonists, and have their functionality somewhere between miscreants and antagonists
gang is a personal favorite of mine, and my biggest concern is that people treat it how they treated rev and spy: team deathmatch. It's most fun when it's basically rival groups of miscreant-level thugs and hooligans acting like your typical assistant mob.
12-12-2016, 10:48 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2016, 11:12 AM by atamusvaleo. Edited 1 time in total.)
Normal Gameplay
Nuclear Emergency: Great opportunity to go undercover as a team and silently work to establish a stronghold before planting the nuke. One of my favorite modes if you can get a competent team who follow orders and work together. I'd like to see the Nuke Team leader have more say/control over the tactics the team employs.
Traitor: Great when people come up with unique ideas. I tend to go the secretive route: hatching a plan, setting up, and then unleashing hell. Basically, give the crew no chance to stop my machinations once I've set things in motion; however, I do try my best to make it fun for everyone.
Changeling: Earn people's trust, watch folks interact with each other so you can absorb one of them later and use their "friendship" to deceive your prey. I'm sad though. I posted a lot of the ideas that have been implemented to changeling but have yet to roll ling since they were added.
Wizard: Wiz is fun when you get a wizfriend to work with. I usually end up trying to be nice until someone inevitably attacks me and I use that as an excuse to hunt and cluwne their loved ones. Could use some work with having skills meant to compliment each other. (ie, water spell that blasts a torrent from your staff and leaves puddles behind, then an electric shock spell to zap anyone standing on the water)
Blob: I don't think blob is unbalanced. It's luck of the draw with where you decide to spawn and if someone happens to see you before you can get a decent foothold. The trouble with blob is too many crew members being defeatists and giving up before they even try to fight the blob. I've had plenty of rounds where I single-handedly fend off the blob, holding it back. If I had just one ally to flank the blob while it's distracted, we could easily eliminate it. Communication people.
Secret: Shhh! What is secret? Just a chance for any antag? Okay.
Mixed: Mixed bag of nuts is nice. Some people like cashews, some like walnuts, and others like peanuts. Everyone gets a bit of everything. The only bad part of these rounds is being spawned in as a plain ol' non-antag human. Good luck surviving!
Extended: I love Destiny. Some great rounds have happened on that extended server. The majority of these rounds have been events from Shotgunbill (still working on those pictures btw, I'm a sloooooow worker when painting and drawing) or Zewaka.
Uncommon
Gang: No comment. I haven't seen much happen in these rounds. Most times the bosses didn't know what to do and somehow one side ends up winning without anyone knowing it was a gang round.
Disaster: I would like to see more of a crew objective in this scenario. Maybe we have to get power up and running and then relink the communications disk before we can call the shuttle?
Revolution: To reiterate my point made on the rev thread. I would rather the heads and sec start off as miscreants with the objective to be cruel and brutal in their treatment of subordinates and crew. Then have a rev leader or two appointed a few minutes in. Remove the R for regular rev members, letting only Revheads see who is in their gang immediately. This gives NT Heads the opportunity to go undercover with the masses and have a fighting chance. Someone had the idea for a clothing item spawner for Revheads that I think could be wonderful.
Spy: Never seen this mode in action.
Individual Antags
Wraith: I have rolled wraith only two or three times which is really sad considering Ive been playing this game for years! It seems like there is a lot of potential to have fun as a wraith... just takes having the chance to play as one and not immediately bork it.
Predator: Again, never played or seen it.
Not Listed
Macho Nacho Man: Sky is the limit! No change is ever necessary. You're beautiful, in every single way.
Werewolf: Seems weak from what people say but Ive never played as one.
Vampire: I enjoyed playing as a vampire and lurking in the shadows. Seems like it could use some buffs to powers. I suggested a little fast move ability some time ago... Here's that post: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=6164
What I'd like to see
A Versus mode. This could have multiple iterations.
Option 1: Vampires vs Werewolves
Blood suckers and stinking dogs! They can't stand each other. Your task as on of these antagonists is to team up with your brethren and crush the enemy creatures.
Option 2: Syndicate Operatives vs Aware Crew
Game starts and the NT crew is immediately alerted to the presence of an incoming Syndicate attack squad. Late spawns have a random chance of joining either side.
Option 3: Macho Man vs Macho Man
Macho Man! Macho Man! Macho Man! Everyone is Macho and a Man.
That's all I've got.
Forgot my antag idea.
Martians
Sundance, I think, was working on some funky Martian ship sprites a while back. It could be a home base for the Martians to start the round similar to nuke ops. Their objective: abduct x amount of players or maybe abduct players x, y, and z? (I'm working on a post for this game mode that I'll try to put up today and link to it here)
12-12-2016, 11:29 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2016, 11:32 AM by Boon Yoon. Edited 2 times in total.)
Traitor: my definite favorite, as it is very freeform and everyone has their own style. The crew has a lot more chances to fight back compared to other types of antags, and often times the traitor is eventually chased around by a mob of angry crew, which in my opinion, is when I'm having the absolute most fun.
As for its essence, it regards the variety of traitor styles, coupled with the variety of ways to fight back. It just feels more free-form for everyone involved. When a wizard makes himself known, I know that I personally do exactly one thing to fight the wiz (acid), and it's just boring. However, if I don't throw acid, what else is there other than security tools or hoping the wizman fucks up? As for lings? I often don't even care because you can't really melee a ling down, and most lings like to be sneaky. I'm more than happy to simply die and hang out in hive mind chat. Blobs are the same, requiring a certain routine of tactics. Make flame throwers, order phasers, or actually use that toxins experiment you were working on. By the time I produce a rod for the flamethrower, I simply just want to turn it into a head-spike, with yours truly atop of it.
So in short, it's the openness of the standard traitor round that I most enjoy. I guess that's the essence.
Nuke: quick and dirty, at least most of the time. Who doesn't like a brawl? The only routine element of this mode is the necessity to get a space suit since nuke teams always fucking vent the area. Also, when they reinforce their nuke site, I often see a loss of motivation in the crew. We are all pretty lazy, I guess.
The essence of this mode is fun teamwork, even if it often isn't so much fun for the actual team due to that one sarin nade. The fun teamwork applies crew side as well, and there are tons of ways to approach even the best of nuke teams. Telescience wizardry, improvised weapons, lockers and a bucket of water, whatever, it all has a shot to make a difference.
I guess you can sense the theme. I just like the round to be open ended instead of narrowed in scope due to the required tactics.
Goonhub
