Impose Austerity On Station To Improve The Game

[Huff H Law]

I do not necessarily agree with this opinion, but DonglordActual on the IRC actually brought up an interesting point regarding SS13 and why people like Dions dislike how it is like currently, which is why I'm writing this down because I feel like it is an idea that is worth something:

The station as it is designed now does not encourage 'grittiness', I suppose. What I mean by this is it does not encourage an austerity that makes you dependent on other people. Think on how rooms are built for example, if you want to break into engineering you break a window and you're in, you do not need to ask anyone or grab a toolbox, and even if you did need to grab a toolbox there are more than enough toolboxes for everyone. Which is another design failure, I guess, all equipment you need you can grab, there is no shortage of things: toolboxes, utility belts, guns, space suits, medical supplies, etc. All of these are immensely important to the average spaceman, but because there is plenty of them they lose their value. Who cares about holes in the station when you and everyone you care about can get a spacesuit.

The idea would be to impose a sort of austerity on the station, you wouldn't even need to remove the hair colors or chemicals, just remove windows to departments to make them harder to break in, remove most of the supplies so that if someone has a space suit or medkit they become immensely more important (funnily enough this would make medical doctors way more important if medbay started with far less medkits), and possibly also remove the outright deathtraps - such as the windows to space that are sprinkled around the map - built into the game.

In short, don't build the game in a wacky way but build it in a serious way so people being wacky means something. Thank you for reading and no I do not expect this thread to change the game immediately, it is just a good point that I thought deserved recognition.

P.S. If you motherfuckers use this thread to whine about how things used to be better in the old days I will end you.

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To add: there is of course the fear that people won't work together if they have to rely on QM to get more supplies or something like that, which would make every round poverty station 13 like the times the engine wasn't set up a lot of round and caused everything to be without power.

To which I can respond: eh, whatever.

[Ed Venture]

Most of the areas of CogMap2 are far too easy to break into.

[misto]

the greedy scrabble for goodies in the olden days was a bit funny, but if you want gritt for mature gamers rather than toonstation you might consider troubleshooting the wizards and vampires

[Grek]

I have noticed that Cog2 tends to be overstocked to the point where there's no need to ration medicine or get tools in advance. If you need a crowbar for a firelock, there's probably already one in the room with you, so who cares! Older maps forced people to be more inventive.

[Huff H Law]

Blah.

the greedy scrabble for goodies in the olden days was a bit funny, but if you want gritt for mature gamers rather than toonstation you might consider troubleshooting the wizards and vampires

This isn't what the suggestion is about, don't bog this down in infinite ideas that are impossible to complete at once, let's just stay with this one thing and gradually improve on it, Jesus fucking Christ. Make another thread about this.

Also there are understandably some worries that making SS13 into an Orwellian wall paradise would make the game lonelier, so instead of just removing windows altogether you can reduce the number of them and require breaking in through the windows to be impossible without tools, like the brig is constructed for example.

[Nnystyxx]

1. Windows shouldn't be removed. Cogmap2 with its size and spread can feel lonely. The windows help crew to interact. Make them more durable if you have to, limit throwing damage to windows, whatever, but don't exacerbate that problem.

2. Ghost drones are for dead-dead-DEAD players to have something to do. It is not at all comparable to being borged or cloned, because you effectively forfeit any ability to affect the round besides like, fixing breaches and making cool bars in space. It's also your only option if you got gibbed/the cloner blew up like it always does.

3. There are a lot of hellchems and it's pretty trivial to make some of them. I like testing them on monkeys, though. I just dunno what to do about that one.

4. If people don't know what to do, make a greater emphasis on the wiki. Also, people aren't really expected in the current culture to do their jobs most of the time. Part of Goonstation's draw is that you aren't forced into anything, even as an antagonist. We'd be losing something if we became too aggressive about enforcing competence.

5. I've had my life saved by the odd useful thing lying around. Boxes, suits, whatever. If we have to trim the fat of what's accessible, fine, I guess. You know what I like about there being more gloves? I don't have to pester other players 24/7 to be able to do things and I don't have to roll a job department I usually don't play (engineering) to have Guaranteed Gloves:tm:. That crowds people out of roles they actually want for their gameplay so they can get the Rare Good Stuff, I feel.

6. Put more emphasis on the Quartermaster and Cargo, and expand his potential inventory. Right now it's very easy to ignore it and the merchant stands are usually ignored in favor of the smelter/etc. Also, you could easily not even notice for weeks that the Warehouse is directly next to the smelter, and not everyone can even access the Warehouse.

EDIT: Please don't kick my ass. This is mostly in response/counterargument to Ed Venture and some of DonglordActual's points. None of this should be taken as suggestions for suggestions' sake, moreso responses to concerns I've seen thus far.

EDIT2: I am in support of windows being hard to break without actual explosions and otherwise requiring tools. There's a lot of shenanigans and subtlety missed out on by the classic 'hit it with an oxygen tank' method.

[Mageziya]

While there are problems with the game design right now, like the oversupply and and the lack of gamemodes mentioned, it is the completely wrong perspective to say that we need to change from zaney to gritty. The tone of the game is fine right now, it's always been weird and odd. Most "behavioral problems" relate to the lack of meaningful consequence that's fundamental to videogames, in that people feel no reason to enforce consequence for others' behaviors because at the start of the next round everything will be back to normal. Making it "gritty" won't make the situation better, it'll just either make the game more dull or more frustrating, or worse: it'll do both.

[Joefesok]

It's another idea to complete, but why not make it so you can only bust reinforced windows if you have, say, wirecutters? You smash through first and the grille is either indestructible without explosives/wirecutters/excessive force, or you have to break down the window with wirecutters.

I think that having less supplies could work well, provided either most jobs start with the materials they need either in the directly immediate area on their person, or they have some way to obtain them- probably from mining.

[Noah Buttes]

I've long been preaching about how the station is too overstocked for its own good.

I 100% agree that the station needs to be more secure and that supplies need to be more scarce.

As far as reducing the amount of medicine on station goes, I say the biggest issue is that there's too much medicine outside of medbay. Rarely do I ever actually have to go to medbay in order to get healed up.

Edit:

So help me god, if anyone changes the hair settings...

[atomic1fire]

Eh, I picked blue bieber hair because it's something I would never wear in real life tbh. Anime hair just seemed to fit the future aesthetic. The chaotic hijinks I think owes more to the fact that this is basically sealab in space and while there are plenty of competent crewmen, there are just as many incompetent ones.

The tone of the game has always been a clash of structure and chaos, kinda like hogan's heroes or mchale's navy in space.

[Nnystyxx]

It is basically Sealab 2021, that's how I view it. Everyone has an agenda, or their quirks, some try to do their jobs, and rarely they succeed with flying colors.

Other times they die in a tragic telecrystal-sunglasses-and-a-crusher accident.

This is just the way of a spaceman's life. If "serious and gritty" wasn't the intent, then portraying it with those words was a dumb idea and it's not any surprise everyone is arguing against that point, since it stands against basically everything we view the game as.

[Grek]

Honestly, instead of getting rid of windows (which leads to a more closed station and even less communication), why not bring back electrified grilles? Cog2 has way too few of those and they do a decent job of keeping people from just breaking in places.

[Nnystyxx]

Honestly, instead of getting rid of windows (which leads to a more closed station and even less communication), why not bring back electrified grilles? Cog2 has way too few of those and they do a decent job of keeping people from just breaking in places.

You can still kick electrified grilles but doing anything else zaps you I think?

which is odd because wirecutters have insulated handles but w/e, this is probably a pretty good idea

[Huff H Law]

Response to Ed's shitpost and the hair bit.

No don't respond to ed's shitpost or that hair bit! This suggestion is all about giving people less supplies and making departments more secure!

Thanks to other people who actually posted about the idea and what they thought about it though, let's just keep it to supplies and departmental security in this thread.

[misto]

electrified grills are a hoot. i remember one time i had an esword in the old days and thought i was hot shit till i tried to cut an electrified grill with it while fleeing encroaching flames. electricity travels up esword beams!