Move the AI/upload chamber

[medsal15]

If we continue to focus on the idea that the station's symmetry can't be ruined then the ability to improve cog2 will be severely limited. git fuked symtry

SCREW SYMMETRY

Ignore symmetry.

[BBEG]

if you have any questions about my critique please ask. so many holes and weaknesses remain. the computers and printers in the upper room need to be recessed into the wall in order for the turrets to maintain relevant fields of fire. you may need to make the upper room fatter to accomodate that. i have also proposed adjustments to the lower room. frankly i wish the lower room was bigger and had room for even more turrets because god knows just a couple of  stun/laser blocking pushable items such as lockers or something will still have you in there with no sweat at all

the northern apc remains as a classic achilles heel, that's acceptable

oh yeah, and the belt/launcher bends are utterly unnecessary

Just remember, this is trying to make it harder for the AI upload and camber to be broken into, not ensure that it's impossible for anyone without I.D access and a non-rogue AI.



With that in mind, there were a couple of the ideas you presented which I have changed:

• The computers in the AI's chamber have been recessed so that the north turrets are a bit more effective.
  
• There are two more turrets in the AI upload, and the robotics control console and AI upload computer has been moved into the center of the room.
  
• Belt hell has been extended to the north.
  

Some of the things you presented but I didn't include:

• The windows on the outside are for alerting the AI that someone is breaking in now, especially from space which has come silent. The IR detectors will beep if someone tries to get in the easy way to then break through the reinforced walls into the AI chamber. This will give the AI time to alert security or the crew to come help it, this is an import point to make as, while the AI does need some form of self-defense, the crew are also a major part of keeping it safe.
  
• The disposals chute will have to say in the AI upload, as it's there to ensure is people are bolted in and the turrets set to lethal they still have some way to escape. Even in it's location and with two turrets the entire room didn't have a safespot either.
  
• The thick windows around the AI have to remain, as they make more sense with the blast doors, but more importantly you can click-drag things through thin windows into crates. So you could just walk in, click-drag the AI and walk out with it.
  
• In general though, if someone wants to steal the AI no defense is going to truly stop them. This improvement is focused around making it harder for people to do so. This is through ensure the AI knows someone is trying to break in (IR detectors) and delay their attempts (wires under grills, and reinforced walls).
  
• Don't forget that the AI can't even use its lasers of a human is breaking in and it doesn't have a law that allows it to defend itself with lethal force. Therefore, having windows into the core is made more pointless I find.
  

In response to general feedback:

• If we continue to focus on the idea that the station's symmetry can't be ruined then the ability to improve cog2 will be severely limited. git fuked symtry
  
• The idea of putting the modules in two separate rooms is an interesting one, but I think the AI has more than enough defense against rogue law uploaders, and any dedicated ones can simply steal the law board and make another AI upload with the bridges circuits.
  

I personally think this is a perfect setup makes screwing with the A.I's laws difficult enough that the avarage joe won't bother

[Roomba]

Speaking of which the reset/backup upload and killswitch modules really should be moved to the AI upload. On cog1 they were, sensibly, as difficult to reach as the regular upload and killswitch.

[misto]

i know leaving gaps in the armor is good for fair play, but leaving the upload modules along the outer walls still feels quite unsafe. they can get their grubby hands on them so easily, safely take their time thinking up something nasty from inside the walls, then its time to break a table and make a quick dash in and out and theyve done it.

okay, the ones that nobody gives a shit about like protectstation and conservepower can remain on exterior tables. even extra copies of reset can remain on exterior tables. but the real juicy ones, the only ones anyone gives a shit about, like makecaptain, onehuman and freeform, they really should be nestled on a table in between those two computers there. its not like im asking for something sensible, like them to be put in a secure safe whose code is only known by station heads or anything.

and i must reiterate those exterior laser detector windows are doing next to nothing considering the huge gaps in their coverage.

and the grilles, another beautiful weakness, even electrified. babby spaceman's first lesson in breaking and entering school is that shards dont conduct electricity. an assistant with an air supply, a pod, a toolbox, and a shard will be nipping at your apcs in a few minutes time and security will want to stop to find space suits first before coming to look, if they care or are still alive at all.

[69andahalf]

i know leaving gaps in the armor is good for fair play, but leaving the upload modules along the outer walls still feels quite unsafe. they can get their grubby hands on them so easily, safely take their time thinking up something nasty from inside the walls, then its time to break a table and make a quick dash in and out and theyve done it.

okay, the ones that nobody gives a shit about like protectstation and conservepower can remain on exterior tables. even extra copies of reset can remain on exterior tables. but the real juicy ones, the only ones anyone gives a shit about, like makecaptain, onehuman and freeform, they really should be nestled on a table in between those two computers there. its not like im asking for something sensible, like them to be put in a secure safe whose code is only known by station heads or anything.

and i must reiterate those exterior laser detector windows are doing next to nothing considering the huge gaps in their coverage.

and the grilles, another beautiful weakness, even electrified. babby spaceman's first lesson in breaking and entering school is that shards dont conduct electricity. an assistant with an air supply, a pod, a toolbox, and a shard will be nipping at your apcs in a few minutes time and security will want to stop to find space suits first before coming to look, if they care or are still alive at all.

Yeah, I was thinking that I need to extend the coverage of the IR detectors to be more like they were on cog1.

The grilles aren't intended to shock you when you break but, but rather if you cut them, and then walk over them they will shock you. This means that you can't get inside of the walls and run around to your hearts content. Yes you can remove the rest of the grille and it will not shock you, but again, this is to attempt to slow down baddies getting directly at the AI.

I'm also hesitant to move the tables into the middle of the room as I'm not sure it will entirely solve the problem. You could still run into the AI upload, grab the boards, and get out between the turrets firing. I see where you're coming from, and I think it might be cool to actually have some form of special storage area for the modules like other servers do (IIRC they have a wall mounted case or locker for them), but I'm not entirely sold on it yet.

I feel we should also stop assuming that the pro-griefer is coming to get the AI every round. Yes, someone who has played on goon for a few months will be able to break into pretty much anything, and honestly there's not much that can be done which won't come off as "overly protective mapping" for lack of a better term. I feel like I may be coming off as overly negative about your ideas, which I feel bad about because they make sense and are good, but I'm just trying to find the balance between slowing down the really good players, but not making it overly impossible for newer players.

[Frank_Stein]

Why don't we just get rid of the law module board method and having like, an actual console you have to stand at and type the laws into?

---

Resetting the AI should just be a big red button next to that console

[69andahalf]

Here's a quick update:

• The AI core and upload are now surrounded by IR detectors, so that you'll have to set one off if you try to get in from the outside. Caused the AI chamber to be expanded slightly, just above and below the consoles.
  
• Extended the AI upload by one tile on each side, and put two tables in for the more dangerous modules. Currently the free form/not human modules are next to the upload, and one human/make captain modules are next to robotics control.
  

[Noah Buttes]

I feel we should also stop assuming that the pro-griefer is coming to get the AI every round. Yes, someone who has played on goon for a few months will be able to break into pretty much anything, and honestly there's not much that can be done which won't come off as "overly protective mapping" for lack of a better term. I feel like I may be coming off as overly negative about your ideas, which I feel bad about because they make sense and are good, but I'm just trying to find the balance between slowing down the really good players, but not making it overly impossible for newer players.

Honestly, I'm fine with "overly protective mapping." Some areas really do need to be heavily secured against break-ins just because unauthorized access can cause so much harm.

The five places that come to mind are the armory, the AI upload, the AI core, the engine, and toxins.

The engine, surprisingly enough, is easily the most secure area of the four. It's very difficult to break into the engine core room unnoticed.

The armory is the second most secure since all the goodies are locked away inside (mostly) impenetrable containers. That is until someone buys an emag, then it's practically open season since there's only one wall separating the armory from a maintenance hall.

The AI core takes two or three minutes to break into, theorertically giving security plenty of time to stop a would-be AI thief. Unfortunately, security typically can't be arsed to actually respond to AI distress calls.

The AI upload is laughably easy to break into.

Almost anyone can just waltz right into toxins. The one exception is if someone is making reality-bending bombs, in which case you'll be hard pressed to even survive in there.

[misto]

these defenses are beginning to look respectable, 69andahalf. well done

[Sundance]

Current map

I think there's very little you can do to improve what you've done there, it's balanced in that it's significantly harder to break into but still has niche ways of breaking in, it encourages smarts rather than the current set up of breaking in and smashing all the grills and waltzing into the core laughably. I agree it's a fine balancing act but I think as it stands you've got that fine balance.

[Noah Buttes]

Before we say it's perfect, can we please get something to deal with wizards just phase shifting on top of the ai and murdering the hell out of it?

[Sundance]

That's less of a mapping issue and more of a coding issue
*stares

[Noah Buttes]

That's less of a mapping issue and more of a coding issue
*stares

I could've sworn there was a way to make tiles impassable to phase shift.

[BBEG]

That's less of a mapping issue and more of a coding issue
*stares

I could've sworn there was a way to make tiles impassable to phase shift.

the only way i know of is the instagibbing in the adventure zones but for some reason i don't think that would be fair

[misto]

give plasma glass the mysterious property of interrupting phase shift and doppelganger travel. surround ai with plasma glass. job done

i also notice that the upload room now seems to have 2 apcs? is this an oversight or intended? perhaps they could be on opposite sides if intended. then you would have to loop round and fuck with both apcs in order to manually fuck the place up