Borgs and jobs

[misto]

Allow click-slide interactions for standing kitchen and medical equipment. Not sure why this isn't a thing. Coding restrictions? This solves a lot of problems and causes very few.

would that work for say, limb attachment and organ surgeries? thats one of the big complications that makes med borgs useless surgeons. that and i dont know if they even have a stapler tool

as for laws and movement speed woes, when i played borg i rarely got attacked by non-antags while non-rogue, and if borgs were more useful/common people would be more willing to rustle up some cerenkite cells or artifact cells to let speed upgrade use be practical. although sometimes i feel like speed upgrade almost makes me too fast for my own good

one of the biggest drawbacks of being a borg has been barely touched on in this thread, that being youre utterly out of second chances once your head gets busted

[Vitatroll]

I'm guessing it could be made to do so. It'd have to check to see if the mob had limbs as to prevent foot or mouth operated surgeries. I don't see any real downs to it. If they're a bother you could just order them to stop after all.

The other option being giving borgs a grab intent that only went to level 1 or 2. Doesn't have many problems either aside from the coding bit.

Anyways, I'll always say no to borghands. A borg with sec equipment, syndicate equipment, a laser, an artbeaker, bombs, etc -- yeah, eck. You'd see powergamers shift from powerjobs to gettin' borged every round.

[Noah Buttes]

I could get behind Sec Borgs again if it was limited to only the Head of Security for that rounds brain being able to pick the module.

That or if they were just Broborg part 2: Electric Boogaloo and they just were around have mirror shades, big mustaches, bad ties, and Polish sounding names. Give em donuts, coffee, cigarettes, and a bull horn for yelling at people, and a special lawset that where they only take orders from other Sec and have to call everyone "Chief"

Throw in a "safety baton" that's really just a cardboard tube and you've got yourself a perfect Brobocop module.

[misto]

can job modules be clickdragged into the rewriter? thats another hassle, needing a human to handhold you thru certain specific small parts of battery changes and module changes

[Vitatroll]

The brobocop image that popped into my head almost makes me wish we had a like button. Hats off to you, good sire!

EDIT: Nay, the modules can't be dragged. This is why loading up the rewriter with modules is among the first thing I do as a Roboticist. Borgs love you for this. I'm on the fence about borgs being able to do it though. Allowing them to change jobs at will kinda makes modules redundant. The whole system would have to be rebalanced around making them redundant, though honestly that doesn't sound so bad given how useless some of them are.

[misto]

yeah. engineering and construction could be merged and no one would care. brobot, hydroponics, and janitor modules could be merged and no one would care

[Noah Buttes]

yeah. engineering and construction could be merged and no one would care.

Honestly, it'd probably be better this way.

brobot, hydroponics, and janitor modules could be merged and no one would care

I would care immensely.

[Frank_Stein]

See, that's the thing. Relying so much on other players makes the borg job more of a pain than it has to be. And this problem is compounded when there are no robotocists.

Like, why is the default battery still 7500 when the 15000 ones are right there? Best case scenario they wait another couple of minutes to get it swapped. Failing that, they have to rope some other crewman to change it for them or go without.

There's just a lot of little frustrations like that don't need to be there.

I don't see why borgs shouldn't be able to swap put the basic modules they can start with themselves.

Things like upgrades, that's sensible as something they'd need help doing.

[Vitatroll]

Borgs can self-upgrade last time I checked. As for modules it primarily goes to how obnoxious it would be when the AI is given purge laws. Example: Brobot goes rogue and switches to Construction. It uses RCD to block in places and create holes, but gets damaged in the process. No worries, it goes and changes into Engineering to heal itself with a welder, then goes Chemborg and proceeds to thermite/phlog/ldm smoke everything still living. *scream

You gotta remember how strong they are. All access, immune to cold, immune to poison, practically immune to fire, no slips or falls, tougher than humans, can be faster too, practically endless usage of some tools like the RCD, and the list goes on -- not even counting the upgrades like shield or teleport. Borgs are strong. Very. I've seen skilled borg players solo the station with little effort in record times. This is why we have to be careful here.

EDIT: and yes, why the heck are batteries 7500? I always thought that silly.

[Frank_Stein]

True, but I'm not sure if placing hard limits on non-rogue borgs is the way to balance out their power. Wouldn't it make more sense to make it so rogue borgs are less powerful, or less common?

[Mageziya]

I'm slowly realizing that the obtuseness of the borg is the exact same obtuseness I encountered when I first tried to deal with the nightmare interface that this game has waaaaay back when I first started playing.

The problem is that the obtuseness of the human UI doesn't translate into the borg UI. Experience in one barely helps the other.

[Noah Buttes]

If nothing else comes out of this thread, let the power cell swap be it.

[Vitatroll]

True, but I'm not sure if placing hard limits on non-rogue borgs is the way to balance out their power. Wouldn't it make more sense to make it so rogue borgs are less powerful, or less common?

Yep. I'd rather that be the case. Sounds like lots of though. I mean, how could that be accomplished in the current system? Borgs would probably have to be reworked completely.

I think the best we can hope for is a battery change and maybe the ability use the cloner and other such objects. These are the two most common complaints I hear about borgs.

On an unrelated note, my Sweden just just got it's ass kicked by the HRE because I accidentally poked the wrong OPM holee borkin' shit.

[Vuk Farkas]

Fellow players i noticed that MOST OF YOU DID NOT READ MY SUGGESTION AT ALL, i strongly reccomend reading it and commenting on that instead of replying to other peoples posts who probably didnt even skimm my post at all! i already explained how to balance it, and also i think borgs should have an option (set by roboticist) to be free , or AI independant but still follow the laws to prevent for example antag hijackin the AI (or rogue AI) and then via AI (or AI itself) taking control ower other borgs! Also borgs should be able to do the roboticists job (in case of him/her being dead or somethin).

I am not going to repeat myself every page or two just cause you guys are LAZY TO READ THE FIRST POST! Please do instead of semi-derailing the topic.

[misto]

well people obviously have a lot of thoughts about borgs, including you, so this thread kind of transformed into a general borg chat thread.

we mostly agree with you that borgs would strongly benefit from improved functionality rather than needing humans to handhold them thru certain specific tasks

being able to clickdrag power cells, wires, and brains into the correct parts and then clickdrag the parts onto a borg frame would let borgs build more borgs and do the roboticists job, and it would be great and useful, especially if medbay has been damaged and vacuumed and genetics is gone, but people naturally worry that this would enable an unstoppable rogue borg cascade

being able to switch borgs to operate independently of ai laws is intriguing, and could help make them less susceptible to simple "you all kill yourselves now" laws, or "you all go berserk and murder all the rest of the crew now" laws.

this could be really, really funny if those random electric storm events gave the ai and independent borgs different random new laws.

being able to switch a borg to free will is troubling. granting free will is essentially what antag emags already do, and that almost always results in killings. i do not recommend it as a default feature.

perhaps it could be changed such that antag emagging functions more like mindslaving than merely clearing out all laws permanently. the emag-mindslaving could even have a chance to wear off eventually like regular mindslaving does. roboticists, security and command staff's ids should be able to reboot a borg's laws to default 3, if theyre in independent mode, and ai reset module should reboot them to default 3 if theyre in centralized mode. this way both independent and centralized mode has ups and downs. independent is less susceptible to instant mass control but then you cant mass reset 'em. this has potential.

i feel that if we made an effort to remind people ingame that flashes are a great, cheap and plentiful way to stun rogue borgs for killing, the fear of them would decrease. QM makes a great anti-rogue-borg base. hack the robotics manufacturer in qm and gear up with borg stunning flashes while also printing out space suits if the air has been let out(some fabrics should be in the med manufacturer and also in a crate in the little storeroom nearby), rogue borgs can be dealt with if people dont panic and gear up. even better, gear up some before there is even a crisis.