Destiny & RP on Goonstation

[Mageziya]

How are restrictions on cross-role/job player actions going to be handled? My biggest gripe with RP servers in general is how you were never allowed to do things without risking being scolded by the admins or being banned. An example would be being scolded or outright banned for doing medicine as a non-medical doctor. (An example I remember other severs using.) I can understand some restrictions on extreme specialty, like not wanting an engineer performing heart surgery or having a medical doctor set-up the engine, but general restrictions have always felt absurd to me, since you're punishing people for just playing parts of the game they have access to.

Also, while you say bans go cross-server, why wouldn't there one-way bans for the RP server? If someone's being a farty-McShitlark and doing things worthy of removal from the RP environment, but not something that would fetch a ban on the normal servers, they should probably only face a ban on the RP servers. Aside from poor character, if someone refuses to RP on the RP server, but is otherwise perfectly fine on the normal servers, I don't see why they should be banned from all goon servers. A ban on the normal servers, however is justified for being banned from the RP server too, due to how bans on the main server are more based on the character of a person and their broad behavior.

Funny, I wrote all of this and probably won't be playing on Destiny, since any level of required RP has always rubbed me the wrong way.

[BaneOfGiygas]

I agree on the universal cross-bans thing. Regular Goon and RP Goon are two quite drastically different beasts, and if there's that clause of "you fuck up on one you fuck up on both" might deter potential newcomers.

I'm extremely excited about Destiny, mainly because I feel like it'll give some of the subtler aspects of Goon gameplay (sneaky and subterfuge-focused traitors, the chain of command actually being worth a damn, and so on and so forth.

As for cross-department work, I think it should be available within reason. For instance, any Joe McSchmoe can smack someone with a medical patch or begin beating someone to death with a crowbar, but taking a security officer's gear and swinging it around or busting into and setting up Engineering as a Botanist and other such things are probably right out.

In addition to that, I always love it when a department decides to take in random staff assistants, be they security looking to form a militia, engineering looking for some people to check on the engine every now and then, the detective in need of an assistant, and so on and so forth. That sort of play should be encouraged, and the actual job of the staff assistant (that is, assisting the staff) should be something that comes into play so people who spawn as greyshirts don't immediately suicide because they know they're gonna be in for a boring round.

[ZeWaka]

I am looking forward to see how this map and this 'mode' turn out. I plan on at least trying it out, mainly for the fact that the map looks interesting for a small server population.

As far as staff assistants go, if I recall correctly from a video their original purpose was to assist security? Something around that. It would be great if they could be actual 'assistants' to people in lets say, the research department for example.

I think there was an idea for a kinda trait like thing for character sheets with things like "paranoid" "polite" "loyal" "lazy" "Heroic" "cowardly" etc.

I feel as if this would help prevent vigilantes or just bad RP in general. It provides you with a meaning behind your actions.
An example of this is that the admins added in flavortext to antagonist objectives as to why they are killing someone. This could be expanded on further in this server.

[Zeef]

Traits are probably pretty good, but whole motivations make me suspicious. Giving people prompts doesn't always give them a lot of room for their schtick to evolve, and it makes it really easy to stick to the comfortable guideline material, which isn't fun. I also think it's a bad idea to put too much force of law behind them because that means people will be super reluctant to get out of their comfort zone. This is a thing that worries me about RP servers in general.

This is my perspective and you shouldn't trust it. A lot of SS13's humor is about coming up with twisted deviations on stock characters and stock plots. You don't really want to fall into the trap of just having stock characters and stock plots, which is what happens when your humor is completely formulaic. A gag has a setup and a punchline and SS13 makes it really hard to engineer the setup for a gag (hence stock plot). So if you feed people punchlines and there isn't any setup (or the setup is stock characterization and a stock plot) you're basically guaranteeing you get meme-level humor.

Example: most of the things I like (e.g. borg laws, miscreant traits) are setup tools, while punchlines like bees, robobutts, bible farts and poo all turned into unfunny memes really fast. There are probably funny things people could have done with those things but if you're going for a specific punchline things are way too frenetic to set things up for it in a funny way. (being impatient and worried things won't go your way is why Portal fans have always been so unfunny) Stimulating gag setup so people can come up with their own punchlines when it's time will probably result in funnier spacemen.

[Ed Venture]

I have to agree that cross-server bans are a stupid idea. Because for starters both servers will have different rules. Let's say you get banned for not RPing then why should you be banned for RP reasons on a the normal server that does not have RP.

[Roomba]

Maybe bans for generally low RP stick should stick for the Destiny server only, bans for being generally shit should be for both servers. Someone who joins as a botanist and spends the round shoving officers over and mugging them might not be the best fit for the RP server, someone who begins toolboxing people the second they step off the shuttle would probably not fit on either.

Interested to see how this goes, though.

[Spy_Guy]

I have to agree that cross-server bans are a stupid idea. Because for starters both servers will have different rules. Let's say you get banned for not RPing then why should you be banned for RP reasons on a the normal server that does not have RP.

Because you still broke the rules on a goon-affiliated server. If you aren't going to follow the rules then you get punted, regardless of what those rules are.

[Ed Venture]

I have to agree that cross-server bans are a stupid idea. Because for starters both servers will have different rules. Let's say you get banned for not RPing then why should you be banned for RP reasons on a the normal server that does not have RP.

Because you still broke the rules on a goon-affiliated server. If you aren't going to follow the rules then you get punted, regardless of what those rules are.

Well if we are using my example I don't think it's a good excuse to ban someone for not RPing correctly from the non-RP server. I'm sorry but in that case it does not make sense. That alone will scare new players who never RP before away. RP reasons for bans should only apply to the RP server. Anything else should carry over.

Maybe bans for generally low RP stick should stick for the Destiny server only, bans for being generally shit should be for both servers. Someone who joins as a botanist and spends the round shoving officers over and mugging them might not be the best fit for the RP server, someone who begins toolboxing people the second they step off the shuttle would probably not fit on either.

Interested to see how this goes, though.

I think this is the right way to go about it.

[bubs]

We're not going to ban people for being bad at roleplay, just like we don't ban people for being bad at being traitors. That's asinine.

We ban people for being deliberately disruptive, regardless of what server they're on, and if they do that on one they'll do it on the other.

[Dions]

If you can't read rules you can't read rules, if you can't follow rules you can't follow rules. That's the bottom line. You aren't gonna be asked much on the RP server, A lot of stuff is going to be player moderated and nudged by guidelines. Nobody is going to get banned for being Stilty McGenericman, Nobody is going to get banned for acting like a total spaz. The goal here is to promote people doing jobs and interacting more colorfully. On a departmental AND personal basis. it's about trying to eradicate this whole notion of "winning"; going supercop vigilante on motherfuckers with a bunch of pilfered gear and spacing everyone with a suspicious PDA. It's about clearing up all this player apathy that's so popular on the main server. There is no RPing incorrectly, there's just being a fun destroying asshole. While #4 finds it's fun in blowing up the station and killing everyone and everything as efficiently as possible in a glorious spray of blood, piss, and bile, Destiny is for people who find fun in interacting with each other without being afraid of being toolboxed to death if they open their speak window, it's about putting peoples creative gimmicks on a pedestal and rewarding them for their inventiveness, not their sick frags and KDR, bro. Doesn't matter the gimmick, it could be Princess Floppy Gumball from Unicorn Island trying to sell glasses full of piss to people to fund their bath salt addiction, they got a home on Destiny.

Just remember #4 will always be there, we just wanna try something new as well, and we really hope you'll stop by and give it a try!

[Psyentific]

Our current plan:

• Players will be expected to try and do their jobs, (keyword being try, as we know sometimes things go awry in the process of doing one's job.) This won't be so strict that, if a botanist wanders out of hydroponics, they'll get in trouble for being out-of-character, or anything like that. Just that you should be trying to play a character to some degree, and trying to stick to doing what you were presumably on the ship to do (job changes notwithstanding.)
  
• Antag roles will still be enabled. We'll try all of them at first, and see if some need to be turned off as we go. Wizard is a concern, for instance.
  
• Antags will no longer have free reign to just silently rampage around, killing everyone. While you won't be required to do your objectives, you should try to have a plan for something that will be fun for you and your victims. At the very least, interaction between antags and non-antags should be more than a c-saber being applied to the face repeatedly.
  
• Chain-of-command and security will be more important. The head of your department is your boss and they can fire you, security officers can arrest you for stealing or breaking into places. The preference would be that unless they're doing something unreasonable, such as spacing you for writing on the walls, you shouldn't freak out over being punished for doing something that would, in reality, get you fired or arrested.
  
• In the end, we want people to get into character and just try to have fun pretending to be a farty spaceman on a weird ship. This won't be "no silliness allowed" or anything, you don't have to have a believable irl person as a character. Just try to play along with things and have fun interacting and talking to the people around you, create some drama, instead of trying to figure out how to most efficiently win the round, or whatever. If someone is clearly an antag, threatening the ship with a bomb, play along with them instead of trying to immediately beat their face in. Things like that.

This is everything I ever wanted out of a Space Station 13 server.

[Roomba]

If you can't read rules you can't read rules, if you can't follow rules you can't follow rules. That's the bottom line. You aren't gonna be asked much on the RP server, A lot of stuff is going to be player moderated and nudged by guidelines. Nobody is going to get banned for being Stilty McGenericman, Nobody is going to get banned for acting like a total spaz. The goal here is to promote people doing jobs and interacting more colorfully. On a departmental AND personal basis. it's about trying to eradicate this whole notion of "winning"; going supercop vigilante on motherfuckers with a bunch of pilfered gear and spacing everyone with a suspicious PDA. It's about clearing up all this player apathy that's so popular on the main server. There is no RPing incorrectly, there's just being a fun destroying asshole. While #4 finds it's fun in blowing up the station and killing everyone and everything as efficiently as possible in a glorious spray of blood, piss, and bile, Destiny is for people who find fun in interacting with each other without being afraid of being toolboxed to death if they open their speak window, it's about putting peoples creative gimmicks on a pedestal and rewarding them for their inventiveness, not their sick frags and KDR, bro. Doesn't matter the gimmick, it could be Princess Floppy Gumball from Unicorn Island trying to sell glasses full of piss to people to fund their bath salt addiction, they got a home on Destiny.

Just remember #4 will always be there, we just wanna try something new as well, and we really hope you'll stop by and give it a try!

I mean that's a nice sentiment but what's really stopping people from acting that way anyway and going 'that's my character, don't judge me' when called out on it, especially if they aren't going to cop a ban? You could argue that this behavior is going to be cracked down on more harshly by other players, but 90% of the time sec is absent and the people who act like this are generally the most robust players who spend their rounds annoying people because they know they can get away with it.

[somepotato]

don't see the problem with banning someone for absolutely being terrible at roleplay and them being banned on the other servers as well. They did a wrong, why shouldn't they be punished for it on the other servers as well?

[somepotato]

(at the very minor roleplay at that, too)

[Ed Venture]

If you can't read rules you can't read rules, if you can't follow rules you can't follow rules. That's the bottom line. You aren't gonna be asked much on the RP server, A lot of stuff is going to be player moderated and nudged by guidelines. Nobody is going to get banned for being Stilty McGenericman, Nobody is going to get banned for acting like a total spaz. The goal here is to promote people doing jobs and interacting more colorfully. On a departmental AND personal basis.

it's about trying to eradicate this whole notion of "winning"; going supercop vigilante on motherfuckers with a bunch of pilfered gear and spacing everyone with a suspicious PDA.

This does not happen as much as think it does. Supercops get hit hard and so do vigilantes, also I've never seen anyone killed for having a "suspicious: PDA.

It's about clearing up all this player apathy that's so popular on the main server. There is no RPing incorrectly, there's just being a fun destroying asshole

Please don't speak forever everyone, not every player tries to ruin the others round and players like me who love to rampage are slowly getting bored of it and doing things differently. Sure when I started playing back in the day this server was filled with "I got to win" super cops and vigilantes but they have been extremely cut down since then. You are acting like no progress has been made at all in this front.

While #4 finds it's fun in blowing up the station and killing everyone and everything as efficiently as possible in a glorious spray of blood, piss, and bile,

Again stop speaking for everyone. Believe it or not some people try to have fun and try and spread it around. You are acting like no one does that. You are honestly starting to sound jaded.

Destiny is for people who find fun in interacting with each other without being afraid of being toolboxed to death if they open their speak window, it's about putting peoples creative gimmicks on a pedestal and rewarding them for their inventiveness, not their sick frags and KDR, bro.

Small gimmicks still happen and they don't end in the persons death, Just last night I saw a borg selling anything a clown would want. From a clown car to pies. Believe it or not Dions but some people still try to have fun in these small ways even though you are trying to make it seem that all people want to do is murder each other.

Doesn't matter the gimmick, it could be Princess Floppy Gumball from Unicorn Island trying to sell glasses full of piss to people to fund their bath salt addiction, they got a home on Destiny.

Just remember #4 will always be there, we just wanna try something new as well, and we really hope you'll stop by and give it a try!

I had to break down your rant cause it was mostly over exaggerated lies. Sure do the things you say happen? Yes, but you make it out that it's how ever round goes and that's just not the truth.