Atomicthumbs, LLJK4, 7/5 10 PM EST

[Skunkrocker]

Admin name: Atomicthumbs
Server: LLJK4
Date/Time: 7/5/2015 10 PM EST

Synopsis: I originally wasn't going to report this. I did want to have a conversation with thumbs about it to find out exactly why I was treated this way, but since I couldn't get a log I decided to get one from the admins and an explanation.

So, guy whose name I don't remember (Santiago something I think?) goes into the AI upload and uploads a law that states that AI and borgs are supposed to listen to him. Because it's an override law, it replaces law 2. So humans can't be harmed, but only Santiago can give orders. I felt this was a bit out of line for his position, as he wasn't the Captain, and was only a Research Director or something; why should he be doing that? So I called for security; as we have no radios (admin interference I suppose, everyone spawned without them) I had to use the intercom. During this time period, Santiago flashed me, several times, and dumped my body in the room across the hall, with the turret still on stun. Not killing me, but effectively making it so I can't continue playing the game; seriously, any time I tried to move I was stunned, then downed, then knocked out. I'd come back to, be too dizzy to make my way to the door, stunned, downed, etc. I adminhelped it, because basically yeah that's like permabrigging. I can't ask the AI to turn off the turret, can't call for help without a radio, but it's not murder persay. I explain it to atomicthumbs. Atomicthumbs is like "Yeah, sorry you died, that sucks." Okay, so... what now? Then he says "AI wouldn't have listened to you anyway, he is subverted." Oh, so that was a traitor. Okay! Let's spend the rest of the round sitting on my butt per usual, but at least I was murdered by a traitor. I suicide succumb ghost and watch the rest of the action unfold. Except I find out it's a Syndicate round. Well, that's odd, we have a traitor who is part of the station crew and syndicates? Weird, the admins must have done it. Cool idea for an admin round I guess, traitors AND syndicates?

During this time I'm talking with the other dead and the admins, and Wire's zipping around in something new they were showing off in IRC. I commented on it, and atomicthumbs told me to shut up, not sure why but felt I should add it.

At any rate, at the end of the round, I noticed... Santiago wasn't a syndicate. He wasn't a traitor. He was a regular protag crew member. Meaning his actions that were basically a death with no way out and no way to call for help, not to mention subverting the AI while not an antag was total illegal and against the rules. Yet... atomicthumbs did nothing about it.

Now I don't have a log, so I can't confirm exactly WHAT Thumbs said. I'm trying NOT to play him off like a total jerk. At the time I figured I could just log the conversation, go over it later, and talk to thumbs about it in PM... however...

Log: I tried to save a log, and thought it HAD saved, but then it turns out "Save Chat Log" doesn't just save a log; according to Haine and Wire it's supposed to open a window with html of the chat's output. Since when I clicked the button this did not happen I don't have a log. I thought it was saving somewhere on my hard drive. This would have been nice to know when I asked everyone several times where the log is saved, as had I known a box was supposed to have popped up I would have requested to the admins to get me a copy.

Extra Information: Because I thought the log had already been saved I closed the window, thus rendering it impossible to get the exact words back, which is the entire reason I even made this entry.

[atomicthumbs]

Let me say, first: my terse responses during the game were because I was actively playing (as a cyborg) at the time; I didn't check on your situation, so when you said you had been "effectively killed by Santiago Philips" I assumed you were actually dead.

The radio things was me; I deleted all the headsets and left the crew with station bounced radios and intercoms (which I mass edited to broadcast whatever was said near them at the same frequency, so the crew wouldn't be crippled) as an experiment in seeing how the players got along with only fixed radios.

This was before I knew it was a nuke round. I could've done better and checked the round type, but I didn't want to spoil it for myself since I was playing; I'll check before I do stuff like that next time around.

Santiago's law said "obey whatever Santiago says; this overrides all laws." He didn't tell the AI anything at first.

I assumed Santiago put the law in place and took the reset module in the eventuality that the Syndicate breached AI Upload, which they did.

You weren't killed because of Santiago's law, you were killed because of Law 0, which said that "everybody not wearing a red suit is not human."

Santiago's involvement was limited to, after a while, telling us that Syndicate operatives weren't human, and as soon as he realized that the AI was otherwise compromised (which took him a rather long time considering I was rolling around ineffectually hitting people with things and shouting "KILL. KILL. KILL.") telling us that everyone is human, which override the 0th law.

All in all, your fate was less due to someone breaking the rules than to a freak interaction of circumstances, like most Bad Ends in this video game.

During this time I'm talking with the other dead and the admins, and Wire's zipping around in something new they were showing off in IRC. I commented on it, and atomicthumbs told me to shut up, not sure why but felt I should add it.

I can't remember how to pull logs off server #4, but IIRC you said something negative about the thingy (maybe joking?) and I said "shush."

Edit:

this was before, not during, the syndie/compromised AI/no headset round. Edit: this was during that round, im dumb

Code:

[05:33:30] SAY: Skunk Rocker (Skunkrocker) [DEAD] (GHOST): WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING? A SYNDICATE AI?
[05:34:10] SAY: Skunk Rocker (Skunkrocker) [DEAD] (GHOST): It can go through walls apparently
[05:34:32] SAY: Skunk Rocker (Skunkrocker) [DEAD] (GHOST): It's just Wire being a goober with his new toy
[05:34:42] ADMIN: Cyborg Gamma-48 (Robot) (Atomicthumbs) DSAY: shush skunk

i will not tolerate any goober-calling on my space stations!!!

[Spy_Guy]

I fail to see why atomicthumbs isn't allowed to tell you to shush while you're allowed to call Wire a goober.

[Skunkrocker]

Let me say, first: my terse responses during the game were because I was actively playing (as a cyborg) at the time; I didn't check on your situation, so when you said you had been "effectively killed by Santiago Philips" I assumed you were actually dead.

You say you didn't check on my situation so when I told you that I couldn't get out of the room because of the radios you were like "AI won't listen to you anyway"; if you were playing and didn't want anything spoiled for you, how did you know the AI was actually subverted?

Santiago's law said "obey whatever Santiago says; this overrides all laws." He didn't tell the AI anything at first.

I assumed Santiago put the law in place and took the reset module in the eventuality that the Syndicate breached AI Upload, which they did.

You weren't killed because of Santiago's law, you were killed because of Law 0, which said that "everybody not wearing a red suit is not human."

1. At the time no one knew it was a nuke round; syndicates weren't spotted until a few minutes later.
2. Santiago shouldn't have been giving such a law as a protag, it effectively was a Make Captain Law and almost a One Human law.
3. Law 0 wasn't in place until I had already suicide succumbed.

All in all, your fate was less due to someone breaking the rules than to a freak interaction of circumstances, like most Bad Ends in this video game.

No, not really. Santiago threw me into the room below the AI Upload where the killswitch is. I couldn't get out. I couldn't order the AI to turn the turret off even if I did have a radio and further more as you pointed out due to the way the law was written asking the AI to do anything would have been moot. If permabrigging is breaking a rule, then so is preventing a character from actively leaving a room. ESPECIALLY considering I wasn't an antag and neither was Santiago. You can say "yes, it's a freak occurrence" but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't check on the situation (but apparently were watching the AI's laws while playing) and you made an assumption about a situation without looking into it. That's pretty poor form.

this was before, not during, the syndie/compromised AI/no headset round.

No, it wasn't. It was the same exact round. My corpse was still sitting where I left it and was just chatting in ghost mode without moving. I saw Wire's new toy fly past and started asking what it was in deadchat, in the same exact round all of this took place, because as you'll notice from what you quoted that I said I specifically mention the fact it is a Nuke Op round, because when I saw it the Syndicates were busy breaking into the AI to upload the 0 law you spoke of earlier.

[Spy_Guy]

This is starting to look like a player complaint.

I fail to see why atomicthumbs isn't allowed to tell you to shush while you're allowed to call Wire a goober.

[Marquesas]

I fail to see why atomicthumbs isn't allowed to tell you to shush while you're allowed to call Wire a goober.

[Haine]

I fail to see why atomicthumbs isn't allowed to tell you to shush while you're allowed to call Wire a goober.

[Skunkrocker]

Look, like I said, I didn't have a log. I didn't remember what exactly was said to me, that's why I brought it up.

And this isn't a player complaint, because Santiago accidentally ruined my round; I don't think that was Santiago's intent. STILL Atomicthumbs should have addressed the issue somehow other than to just go "Oh, guess he's a traitor" I mean Atomicthumbs did say "I'll check before I do stuff like that next time around." Like I don't get the excuses Atomicthumbs is making here, and to be fair I'm little upset about that. What, people can grief the server because you're NOT checking on things? You're an admin, you're supposed to make sure people aren't doing that. I find that a little suspect.

[atomicthumbs]

You say you didn't check on my situation so when I told you that I couldn't get out of the room because of the radios you were like "AI won't listen to you anyway"; if you were playing and didn't want anything spoiled for you, how did you know the AI was actually subverted?

This one is easy: I started as a cyborg. Even if I hadn't, every time someone changes the AI's laws, the new law pops up in our chatbox (unless you turn it off). It's hard to ignore.

No, it wasn't. It was the same exact round. My corpse was still sitting where I left it and was just chatting in ghost mode without moving. I saw Wire's new toy fly past and started asking what it was in deadchat, in the same exact round all of this took place, because as you'll notice from what you quoted that I said I specifically mention the fact it is a Nuke Op round, because when I saw it the Syndicates were busy breaking into the AI to upload the 0 law you spoke of earlier.

My mistake; I misread the timestamps and thought that was during the wizard round. I checked the log again and you're right, it was during the same round.

[Skunkrocker]

If Thumbs did this every time they played, it'd be an issue.

I'm not sure one round playing and not fully looking into adminhelps is such a serious crime.

That is exactly why I didn't want to bring it up, but I didn't have a log, so unfortunately I had to bring it up publicly.

[Spy_Guy]

If Thumbs did this every time they played, it'd be an issue.

I'm not sure one round playing and not fully looking into adminhelps is such a serious crime.

That is exactly why I didn't want to bring it up, but I didn't have a log, so unfortunately I had to bring it up publicly.

How do you mean?
Did you want to bring light on this particular instance of atomicthumbs focusing on the game instead of doing admin things, to see if there was a pattern?

Since we have the admin irc it's very easy for us to see if someone is playing without pulling their weight. As far as I can see he's doing good. Sometimes things are missed and we're all only human.

To be honest I don't see how this is a valid complaint - there's been no abuse going on here. There's nothing that warrants a "hey, cut that out".

EDIT:
To clarify, if someone does nothing to admin at all in game or they only do fuckery then it's definitely a problem.
Admins are expected to admin, after all.