Posts: 7
Threads: 2
Joined: Jan 2015
Admin name: drsingh
Server: Server 2
Date/Time: 2015-01-25, 11:20PM EST
Synopsis: So, this started with user OMJenkins who had been wanting to cut people's skulls out all day for some key. Always at the start of the round he demanded that no one go ready but one person. So he could cut out their brain. I told him I had no interest in this.
So as soon as the round started, because I refused to follow his plan, he said in IC:
Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "so, canto"
Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "i'm tracking your ass down"
I reported this to adminhelp. I also told OMJenkins in mentorhelp that he should know better than to break the rules. After an admin finally replied, he told me not to use mentorhelp for OOC chat, I stopped. But he said nothing about Jenkins hunting me down solely because I didn't want to follow his pre-round plan. That is clearly against the rules and is metagaming.
Then the admin went on to tell me he basically didn't care that Jenkins broke the rules. Which is funny, because from what I understand, the rules are the rules rather an admin decides to ignore them or not.
My main problem is that the admin not only refused to do anything about the clear breach of the rules, but told me he didn't care. That's the definition of a bad admin. He just looked over Jenkins metagaming because he was a mentor.
Log:
Code: HELP: You: this guy intentionally tracked me down because of what was said in ooc before the round, that is metagaming, his name is old-man-jenkins
Admin PM from-drsingh: hi, please do not misuse mentorhelp. it is not for communicating with players as an OOC
HELP: You: i hope you're going to doing something about jenkins, since IC chat isn't for declaring he will hunt be down because i refused to go along with his plan in ooc
HELP: You: he hunted me down first because of that, said my Ckey, its clear he was meta-gaming
HELP: You: Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "so, canto"#Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "i'm tracking your ass down"
HELP: You: so mentors just get to break the rules and get away with it?
Admin PM from-drsingh: hi, please calm down. you were killed by a changeling, changelings are allowed to kill people
Admin PM from-drsingh: i don't care if he killed you because of something you said in preround ooc or not
Admin PM from-drsingh: that's barely and i mean BARELY metagaming, and frankly if he hated you from previous rounds and decided to use a changeling roll to get some revenge i'd be okay with that too
Admin PM from-drsingh: him, or anyone
HELP: You: killing me because of something i said in a previous round is against the rules
Admin PM from-drsingh: now please stop whining so much, jesus
Admin PM from-drsingh: yes but there's no way to prove he killed you for that reason or another. you suspect he has some massive obsession with you, he says he has no idea who you are and could care less
Admin PM from-drsingh: frankly after reading your admin and mentor helps and having you literally come into the irc to complain because we didn't answer you within minutes i want to metagrudge you too
HELP: You: i showed you a copy of the chat, he said, in IC, that he was going to hunt me down, and targeting someone for something that didnt happen in the round is against the rules, but i can tell you arent going to help
HELP: You: ok, cool, i'll just take it to the forums
Admin PM from-drsingh: yes, we have logs. and that does not surprise me in the least
HELP: You: you just said you didnt have a problem if he broke the rules
Extra Information: none
Posts: 787
Threads: 25
Joined: Sep 2012
BYOND Username: magicmountain
Character Name: Dr. Singh
This is not a cross round grudge. OMJ happened to roll a changeling and decided to use his ability to murder to hunt for the skulls of everyone who spawned at round start. There's an obscure reason for him to want to do this, I don't want to get into the details. Anyway, in my informed opinion, no rules were broken here. You were not specifically hunted down, you were hunted down along with a bunch of other people. OMJ even offered to clone everyone he murdered in his skull hunt, and he did.
Of course, I'm drsingh, so I don't make the call here, but I don't think I did anything wrong in choosing not to punish OMJ for saying he was going to kill this guy and then killing him.
Posts: 7
Threads: 2
Joined: Jan 2015
If he had just decided to hunt everyone down for skulls, then you would be right, no rules were broken. But you're still ignoring the fact that he said in IC chat as soon as the round started that he would be hunting me down specifically:
Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "so, canto"
Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "i'm tracking your ass down"
10 Seconds after that he and old dehrv were chasing me around. I wasn't just a random target, I was targeted specifically because I did not agree with his plan before the round started. If he didn't choose to specifically target me, why did he say that as soon as the round started?
Posts: 787
Threads: 25
Joined: Sep 2012
BYOND Username: magicmountain
Character Name: Dr. Singh
Also your logs are missing a bit
8:08 - HELP (Canto7): this guy intentionally tracked me down because of what was said in ooc before the round, that is metagaming, his name is old-man-jenkins
8:11 - MENTORHELP: (Canto7): jenkins, you broke the meta gaming rules, you should know better as a mento
8:11 - MENTOR PM: (OMJenkins->Canto7)/(Unknown): i'm a literal changeling
8:11 - MENTOR PM: (Houka)->Canto7): Adminhelp would be a good alternative. This is not OOC.
8:12 - MENTOR PM: (Houka->Canto7): That is, not for OOC chat
8:12 - MENTOR PM: (Canto7->OMJenkins): doesnt matter, you tracked me down because of what i said in ooc, i wouldnt cooperate with your plan
8:13 - MENTOR PM: (Houka>Canto7): This is not for OOC discussion. Adminhelp grievances.
8:14 - MENTOR PM: (Canto7->Houka): and IC radio isnt to declare "I'm tracking you down" because of what was said in ooc
8:14 - MENTOR PM: (OMJenkins->Canto7): i tracked down whoever was alive at round start, settle down, you will be cloned
8:14 - MENTOR PM: (Houka)->Canto7): Yeah there's nothing more to be discussed here.
8:15 - MENTOR PM: (Canto7->Houka): Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "so, canto"#Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "i'm tracking your ass down"
8:16 - <drsingh> .pm canto7 hi, please do not misuse mentorhelp. it is not for communicating with players as an OOC
Posts: 787
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BYOND Username: magicmountain
Character Name: Dr. Singh
Canto7 Wrote:If he had just decided to hunt everyone down for skulls, then you would be right, no rules were broken. But you're still ignoring the fact that he said in IC chat as soon as the round started that he would be hunting me down specifically:
Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "so, canto"
Old Man Jenkins [145.9] says, "i'm tracking your ass down"
10 Seconds after that he and old dehrv were chasing me around. I wasn't just a random target, I was targeted specifically because I did not agree with his plan before the round started. If he didn't choose to specifically target me, why did he say that as soon as the round started?
He said that because he was coming to kill you. After he killed you he continued his plan to kill everyone else whose skull he wanted.
You decided from the start that he was breaking the rules. Every action you've taken and every argument you've made is from the stance that he's already broken the rules. The thing is, you don't decide that. Adminhelp is for bringing our attention to situations, you don't just summon us and we punish people. If anything I could punish you for not respecting the mentorhelp rules but I feel a warning is more than enough given you were just taunted and killed, your actions are pretty understandable.
Posts: 140
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Joined: Feb 2014
This is, I feel, quite the grey area. While it does seem to me that it was a little meta-gamey in that premeditation was announced, nothing points to this being a grudge or held between rounds. People told me while I was acting as an admin that they would push me over and fart on me for my sass - that was also the most fun I ever had as a captain.
Personally, I find no fault with this - the overall objective was not specifically narrowed down to you, merely a declaration of general intent towards the crew with preference towards you.
Posts: 7
Threads: 2
Joined: Jan 2015
yep, didnt include the mentorhelp logs orginally, but I did say that I told him in mentorhelp he should have known better to break the rules. So, from your point of view, it was OK for him to use IC chat for OOC, but not ok for me to use mentorhelp for OOC? Sounds like a double-standard. But regardless, as I mentioned in the original report, I stopped talking in mentorhelp after you told me not to.
But the report isn't about Jenkins. He broke the rules, yes. But this isn't a "report a mentor" forum. The problem here is with you refusing to enforce the rules. And telling me you don't care if he broke the rules.
As far as I can tell, all the information regarding the issue is here. So I see no reason to reply anymore unless you happen to come up with something I forgot.
Posts: 787
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BYOND Username: magicmountain
Character Name: Dr. Singh
gosh that last part of my previous post reads like a threat now that i look back on it. i'm going to leave it because i don't want to be covering up what i wrote or anything, but that wasn't my intent. i'm just bringing it up because it's a perfect example of how rules are enforced at our discretion and there's nothing wrong with me using my judgement and not punishing every potential infraction.
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SpaceNaba Wrote:This is, I feel, quite the grey area. While it does seem to me that it was a little meta-gamey in that premeditation was announced, nothing points to this being a grudge or held between rounds. People told me while I was acting as an admin that they would push me over and fart on me for my sass - that was also the most fun I ever had as a captain.
Personally, I find no fault with this - the overall objective was not specifically narrowed down to you, merely a declaration of general intent towards the crew with preference towards you.
That's fine, as I mentioned in my last reply before I saw this, this isn't about Jenkins. Its about the admin who said he didn't care if he broke the rules. As I put in the logs, he said:
Admin PM from-drsingh: i don't care if he killed you because of something you said in preround ooc or not
Admin PM from-drsingh: that's barely and i mean BARELY metagaming, and frankly if he hated you from previous rounds and decided to use a changeling roll to get some revenge i'd be okay with that too
You don't see a problem with that? The situation he described is a clear breach of the rules, and he said he would be OK with it.
Posts: 787
Threads: 25
Joined: Sep 2012
BYOND Username: magicmountain
Character Name: Dr. Singh
This wasn't a grudge in the first place, if he had some problem with you and was trying to ruin your round why would he clone you after checking your skull?
That said I stand by my statements. I don't know how I'm supposed to read somebody's mind and discern their motivations for killing people as an antagonist, the rule is very difficult to enforce in that case.
Personally I don't care why a traitor does the things they do, it's a free pass to go nuts and have fun in my book.
Posts: 1,450
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The grudge rule doesn't really apply to traitors/changelings/etc, they can kill anyone for any reason and they're generally encouraged to be jerks to other players.
It's fine that you reported it though, especially if you didn't know he was a server-selected Bad Dude that round.
Posts: 787
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BYOND Username: magicmountain
Character Name: Dr. Singh
I'll admit I was being rude, it annoys me when people go into mentorhelp or irc when they don't get an immediate response to adminhelps. There's nothing wrong with reporting situations or even disagreeing with our judgement but we're just volunteers. I don't work in customer service for a good reason. (the reason is I'm kinda a dick)
Posts: 607
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let me just say that as an HoP, i went for the crew manifest first
there were two people who didn't late join, you and the HoS, fox mccloud, who i also killed and took his skull for fun and sport
you neglect to mention you were the captain
when one is a captain, there is a server wide announcement saying "such and such is a captain"
you being the captain led to
"Daniel Canto is the captain!"
"i'm tracking your ass down canto" because i wanted to check for the collar key a and b your LAST NAME WAS CANTO
me being a changeling, I am allowed to kill whoever the fuck i want
after I killed you, the other person who didn't late join died too
I do not give two shits about what you said in OOC, believe me I could care less
Posts: 7
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Joined: Jan 2015
OMJ, I use a random name each time. And that was not my IC name. I'm sure an admin can verify this in the logs.
But either way, this complaint isn't about you. It's about the admin who told me he didn't care if you broke the rules. But I'm glad you posted here. It goes a long way to prove my point. You got away with it because you were a mentor. That's the only reason. And then you come in here with a blatant, bold-faced lie. It shows that you expect special treatment and assume you can just lie about something later and get away with it.
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BYOND Username: Hokie/Ines
Character Name: Ines McNabb
He was not let off because he was a mentor, he was let off because he was an antagonist, and can kill whoever the heck he wants.
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