Remove the Genetics job and

[APARTHEID]

another great idea from kubius


while we're at it here why don't we r-wall the hop office so he can't leave

or have all of the engineers rigged to a bomb that will explode and kill them all if the engine goes offline

this demands immediate reiteration above all other posts

[BaneOfGiygas]

What he's trying to say is that the punishment, harrassment or outright removal of an entire job/department due to the neglect of a few (or quite a few) assholes in that job/department is dumb and solves nothing. Instead of meeting rude behavior with more rude behavior, we should be able to arrange things in a way that lets things get done with minimal unwanted interference.

I think that the recent surge of negative feedback about the current genetics situation signifies that SOMETHING needs to be done. Not many people seem to be too happy with the present manner of dealing with this. Hell, as has been posted in a previous thread, even something as simple as putting a wall and airlock in between the two halves of the room for the cloners and genetics solves a lot of issues. But, whatever it is, something needs to happen.

[BeardedElectron]

another great idea from kubius
...have all of the engineers rigged to a bomb that will explode and kill them all if the engine goes offline

I like this idea! talk about incentives! :downs:

[Crumplehat]

If a medic is doing their job right there isn't supposed to BE any dead people. If you want to help people get better at keeping them alive. Medics exist for the living, let genetics handle the dead. Letting medics use the cloner just gives them yet another reason not to patrol the station looking for people to heal or drag back to genetics. Also medical is such a big department that you might as well be making the cloner public at that stage.

[Ali0en]

Because a medic knows where every dying person is, right?

[salix_catus]

If a medic is doing their job right there isn't supposed to BE any dead people. If you want to help people get better at keeping them alive. Medics exist for the living, let genetics handle the dead. Letting medics use the cloner just gives them yet another reason not to patrol the station looking for people to heal or drag back to genetics.

gah there is so much not right about what you are saying.
Doctors DO help people lots. you get the sorts that stay in medbay and help people who come to them dying. then you get the paramedic sorts that patrol the station with healthgoggles, looking for injured people and responding to calls for help. but they can't help people who get silently killed off on they're own or shot up to death in seconds. antags generally kill people without an audience. doctors can then only drag bodies to genetics and hope that the geneticists actually want to help or are actually even there and not hiding away with a portagene.
In space station 13 gibbing is the only real death. clinical death has just become another ailment to be cured with cloning. Giving the cloning procedure to the doctors makes so much more sense.

Also medical is such a big department that you might as well be making the cloner public at that stage.

Here. doctors and geneticists have access, yet cloning is still as closed to the public as before.

[Roomba]

Yeah, I'm not getting the medical dept = public access argument. The medbay department consists of genetics, doctors, roboticists and the MD. The MD already has access, and the doctors are the group in question who people would like cloner access to be given to. Pretty much the only issue there is the roboticist. Which could simply continue to not have genetics access, if people don't like that idea.

[Lantern]

I have had almost the exact same experience as crumplehat. While researching, i will gladly clone any body brought before me if able. The only difference between my experience and crumplehat's is that I will periodically leave my workstation and take a stroll around the station while something is researching. This is the only reason I EVER see those bodies left at the far north airlock. If people cannot be bothered to walk half a screen down to the other airlock where they can be seen, then that is their problem, not ours. Yes there are some geneticists are are generally shit that refuse to clone bodies, or fuck off to parts unknown to hide away and do research. There are also engineers that will NEVER in a million years start the engine, or fix the station. There are Quartermasters that will never order vital supplies for the station, and instead will go seek their fortunes in space or buy fancy cloths. There are scientists who will never make useful chemicals that can save lives, but instead will make concoctions that can literally eat the sever whole. I could go on and on and on with this, but i think they point has been made. Genetics is no different than any other department. Sometimes it will have good staffers, sometimes it will have bad staffers. Eliminating the position does not solve the problem. If it did, then we should also completely eliminate 90% of all the other departments.

[salix_catus]

Eliminating the position does not solve the problem.

Yeah ignore the topic title, people are using this topic to continue the cloner access debate.
here are the previous discussions:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4124
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4288
I don't think the general consensus is to get rid of the geneticist job,that'd be bad.
The issue is that the current cloner setup is not practical as geneticists have the official responsibility (and sole non-head access) over a process that is more suited to the likes of doctors.
Face it, non gibbed death isn't like real death as you can recover from it. therefore it's more like a severe ailment that a doctor can help you with.
Giving doctors and geneticists joint access to the cloner and turning the useless top half of genetics into the cloning room by putting a wall in between would go a long way to helping the situation.

[franfoer]

Doctors DO help people lots. you get the sorts that stay in medbay and help people who come to them dying. then you get the paramedic sorts that patrol the station with healthgoggles, looking for injured people and responding to calls for help.

Just to add another point, this paramedic role is my favourite to play (if I'm in a helpful mood) and there are so many people who would rather stagger from the bar to medbay than wait two seconds for the paramedic chasing them to give them an injection and a healing patch. One round I made a load of health implants and offered to give them away, first come first served, and no-one took the offer. I feel like there's a weird culture on this 'social game' where people just expect they won't be helped, don't do anything useful to get help, and then whine about how useless the other players are (not the majority, but a notable vocal minority).

--

Most geneticist players in this thread have been saying 'Yeah we want to help, here's what we'd like to make us less paranoid' and what's been implemented is a system to motivate them to clone when that is not actually the issue. I mean, the cloning bonus is a good idea so I'm not slamming it, but I'm not convinced it's actually related to the reasons geneticists are reluctant to clone/miss out on corpses.

[Marquesas]

The fact that conflicts sparks from MDs wanting to clone and not being allowed to and the Geneticists sitting on the cloning machine and never using it is amusing for me, plus that's a classic SS13 player interaction. I'm against removing said conflict.

[BaneOfGiygas]

Someone had the idea of moving genetics over to research and giving ROBOTICS access over the cloners, making them the go to people for dead bodies, be they borged or cloned. Having two medical positions, with one in charge of alive people and the other in charge of dead people, seems like it would work out the best.

[franfoer]

The fact that conflicts sparks from MDs wanting to clone and not being allowed to and the Geneticists sitting on the cloning machine and never using it is amusing for me, plus that's a classic SS13 player interaction. I'm against removing said conflict.

I disagree (obviously), but that's a fair comment, I hadn't really seen a specific argument against opening up cloner access so glad to have it clarified. But thanks to the admins for working on improving genetics and cloning.

There's been enough discussion of this I can't remember if I suggested in this thread, but I thought a morgue chute directly outside Genetics would be an easy fix: it confirms if a geneticist is being a shithead or is just preoccupied, plus gives geneticists an extra bit of security against looters if they're being paranoid. I know there's one right outside Medbay, but everyone walks past it anyway...

[BaneOfGiygas]

If we still want to preserve the dynamic, then that's all fine and good, but at the very least give us some kind of chute that lets us throw bodies right in the middle of the genetics lab instead of awkwardly leaving them at the airlock in the vain hope that they notice.

We could also have these chutes eject directly onto the positions at the consoles so we can throw toolboxes at geneticists who are being shit.

[salix_catus]

The fact that conflicts sparks from MDs wanting to clone and not being allowed to and the Geneticists sitting on the cloning machine and never using it is amusing for me, plus that's a classic SS13 player interaction. I'm against removing said conflict.

as if there isn't enough player created conflict anyway? but building it into the mechanics of the game? that's sadistic. Isn't it more fun to send a fully functioning system into chaos than to send an already broken one into chaos?