What is creepy?

[Spy_Guy]

Tweaking nipples doesn't hurt anyone or anything and doesn't have any sexual connotation unless -you- or whomever decides to make it sexual by ERP'ing or whatever.

Tweaking your nipples doesn't carry any sexual connotations? Please explain to me what connotations it does carry, then, because I'll bet you that I can search "nipple tweaking" up on google and get an endless list of sexual things that do not belong on the server.

To be fair, you can look up anything on google and get an endless list of things that do not belong on the server.
(this is dumb)

[Winklabom]

Tweaking your nipples doesn't carry any sexual connotations? Please explain to me what connotations it does carry, then, because I'll bet you that I can search "nipple tweaking" up on google and get an endless list of sexual things that do not belong on the server.

It doesn't carry any connotation other than "I am clicking myself with the grab intent".

I did Google it and the vast majority of the results I got were about breastfeeding techniques and other baby/mom related stuff.

[Mofleaker]

It raises the question: Are you against this feature because it's actually causing problems, or because it's technically against one of the most vague rules we have on the server?

[Cogwerks]

The niche interaction of "silly thing that embarrasses people for misclicking" could easily be handled in a different funny way without messages about crunchy racist nipples.

As far as tormenting other players goes, I generally look at it like this: is it slapstick? Awesome. Is it in line with horror staples? Cool. Is the player getting so overboard with it that it seems like a fetish? Gross. It's pretty vague and depends a lot upon context and patterns and discretion, but if it feels more like someone's snuff porn fantasy than outlandish video game violence, welp.

[Buzzbomb]

The whole nipple tweaking thing I could care less about...imho it's mildly amusing on occasion and doesn't offend me. (in all honesty I could see how it could bug others and whatnot)

My worry is that this precedent continues and face-farting is on the chopping block down the line, this would sadden me to no end.

Cogs is right about context, a player could use tweaking to get outright gross very easily.

On the other hand I don't think buckle-cuffing should be outright removed as it does give sec a bit of leeway to handle slippery individuals, yet I've been harmbaton'd to death while buckle-cuffed as a traitor and it just had this slimy, creepy, sadistic vibe that "left a bad taste in my mouth".

Keep it and just remind players to adminhelp that shit if someone is being obviously sexual about it.

[Cogwerks]

Bucklecuffing's not going anywhere, HOWEVER: bucklecuffing*, straightjacketing and getting welded into a crate should probably get the same treatment lockers and handcuffs have now - they should be escapeable after awhile if you're left alone for too long.
Can just copy over my code for busting outta lockers and put that on crates. Maybe bucklecuffs and straightjackets could involve some sort of horrible damaging contortionism in their escape procs.

*maybe this was already changed? I don't remember :/

[LinkDaWolf]

Bucklecuffing's not going anywhere, HOWEVER: bucklecuffing*, straightjacketing and getting welded into a crate should probably get the same treatment lockers and handcuffs have now - they should be escapeable after awhile if you're left alone for too long.
Can just copy over my code for busting outta lockers and put that on crates. Maybe bucklecuffs and straightjackets could involve some sort of horrible damaging contortionism in their escape procs.

*maybe this was already changed? I don't remember :/

i think you can resist out of handcuffs now if you're bucklecuffed?

[KikiMofo]

Bucklecuffing's not going anywhere, HOWEVER: bucklecuffing*, straightjacketing and getting welded into a crate should probably get the same treatment lockers and handcuffs have now - they should be escapeable after awhile if you're left alone for too long.
Can just copy over my code for busting outta lockers and put that on crates. Maybe bucklecuffs and straightjackets could involve some sort of horrible damaging contortionism in their escape procs.

*maybe this was already changed? I don't remember :/

i think you can resist out of handcuffs now if you're bucklecuffed?

Yes you can it just takes awhile but we still can't get outta straight jackets or welded crates.

PS I love the flipping to get out of a locker Cogs. Its' great.

[Walrus]

somehow none of these things are on the server. . . hmm. . .

Yes, very odd. The point of this is to make sure it doesn't end up on the server in the first place.

To be fair, you can look up anything on google and get an endless list of things that do not belong on the server.
(this is dumb)

Yes, but you can also look up Nipple Tweaking, something that is a SS13 feature, and get results full of things that do not belong on the server. I do not see your point.

It doesn't carry any connotation other than "I am clicking myself with the grab intent".

I really don't think it does considering the fact that many of us were unsure why it existed in the first place.

It raises the question: Are you against this feature because it's actually causing problems, or because it's technically against one of the most vague rules we have on the server?

It could cause problems in the future, why not just change it to something else instead of honourably taking up the shield for the noble cause of Nipple Tweaking as if it is in anyway essential to the game? I brought this up because of people's responses like this:

Twerking ones nipples repeatedly falls more under the socially awkward category of creepiness, and is thus acceptable, also it is ones sovereign right to twerk there nipples, and I shall defend it unto my death and/or banning.

Where it seems that there clearly is some sort of problem in the mindset of people towards features such as Nipple Tweaking. I can definitely agree with what cogwerks proposed.

The niche interaction of "silly thing that embarrasses people for misclicking" could easily be handled in a different funny way without messages about crunchy racist nipples.

[KikiMofo]

I just feel if we removed it, it would be the first step towards removing a bunch of things that "could be considered creepy". I don't like when that happens. Maybe I'm overreacting but that is the feeling in my gut.

[LinkDaWolf]

but why defend this because ~~then every thing possibly used for a creepy event will be maybe possibly be removed~~ or whatever?? this isn't really all that funny however you look at it??

how many people were pissed off because poo was removed for this reason, tbh? i'm sure a lot were.
"ugh now i cant shit on people, or shit on the floor and then throw it at people and/or forcefeed it to them? what the fuck are they gonna remove next, FARTING? strangling a MONKEY????"

why not have it replaced with something actually kind of amusing and not able to be used for weird sexual stuff? right now all it does is potentially make you feel weird for accidentally clicking yourself with the grab intent. what's the point? why defend this?? it could easily be replaced with something at least sort of funny, or with something that doesn't have some sort of sexual connotation.

[Paineframe]

I'm fairly sure tweaking someone else's nipples is sexual but tweaking your own isn't really. With a bit of work someone could probably use it for a creepy or sexual gimmick, but in that case just ban them? I feel like if there were really an epidemic of people using nipple tweaks for creepy things, the admins would have noticed and done something about it by now.

Of course, what I or any other single person thinks is creepy or sexual doesn't matter in this context, if a significant portion of the playerbase disagrees. But again, if a significant number of people felt that nipple tweaking was genuinely creepy then I'm sure the admins would have responded to the inexorable wave of adminhelps about it by now.

[Dauntasa]

the fundamental idea of removing things from the game because they allow weird/creepy behavior is entirely futile simply due to the number of things in this game are both important and long-standing features and also have the potential for unbelievable creepiness.


This is a game where you can slip sedatives into people's drinks, you can tie them up, you can strip their clothes off, etc. There's a point at which you have to stop and go "Is removing this going to actually reduce the overall level of creep possible in this game?", and I think the answer is pretty much always going to be No just because of how much there is. The solution is and always has been banning people who do it. You don't see it especially often not because the potential isn't there but because it is punished harshly.

I mean, shit, there were people arguing that you shouldn't be allowed to throw money at people because they do that in strip clubs. I don't think any modifications should be made to the game to "reduce creepiness" because I don't think that it's ever going to actually accomplish that. People who are creeps are creeps for about five minutes, and then they're banned forever. There's no reason to make any kind of additional changes to protect against them because it's a small problem that is completely impossible to eliminate entirely.

[Sam Guivene]

Creepiness is an overly broad category, a traitor who kills his victim and leaves a menacing note and/or photo of the scene would be quite creepy, but would probably be lauded by all, however, a traitor who strips, ties up, and ERPs with his victims would be creepy and banned for life. Now, with these two vastly different creepy scenarios and end results, why does this difference exist? The reason is because the creepy rule is shit as is. It was mainly intended to handle sexual creepiness as well as extraordinary social awkwardness, however has degenerated into all the other forms of creepiness that make this game great.

[Walrus]

the fundamental idea of removing things from the game because they allow weird/creepy behavior is entirely futile simply due to the number of things in this game are both important and long-standing features and also have the potential for unbelievable creepiness.

This is a great response to an argument that nobody made.

Firstly, nobody is advocating to remove Nipple Tweaking because it allows weird/creepy behaviour, Nipple Tweaking is something with sexual connotations that is coded into the game. Because of this, there is no need for a player to twist or manipulate the mechanic into something else for it to be creepy. Nobody's going to start hounding the admins to remove harm intent because sadomasochists exist, so please cut the whole slippery slope thing where everything fun is going to disappear overnight because Nipple Tweaking was removed. Secondly, this feature is neither important nor long-standing, so we can all rest easy knowing that the game is not going to be fundamentally changed because of the removal of Nipple Tweaking.

I mean, shit, there were people arguing that you shouldn't be allowed to throw money at people because they do that in strip clubs.

Really? Either you're bullshitting us just to prove a point or someone is incredibly and terribly stupid. I would like to see this and possibly laugh at the person who said it, but until then I'll file it under "shit that didn't happen".

Creepiness is an overly broad category, a traitor who kills his victim and leaves a menacing note and/or photo of the scene would be quite creepy, but would probably be lauded by all, however, a traitor who strips, ties up, and ERPs with his victims would be creepy and banned for life. Now, with these two vastly different creepy scenarios and end results, why does this difference exist? The reason is because the creepy rule is shit as is. It was mainly intended to handle sexual creepiness as well as extraordinary social awkwardness, however has degenerated into all the other forms of creepiness that make this game great.

I truly and honestly fail to see how Nipple Tweaking is an example of extraordinary social awkwardness. Please elaborate on this, because you had posted something similar to this earlier and I was very puzzled w/r/t what you were talking about.