Build-A-Base Workshop 13

[Marquesas]

Your design is 95% in now QP.

You owe me and my OCD a saturday night back, though.

Obligatory screenshot of the post-generation starting position:
http://imgur.com/OGU5eWu

[QP Evergrande]

...My heart just exploded. Quick, somebody manufacture a replacement.

Two things, though. If this is going to be the one and only shuttle for arrivals, the airlock probably does need to be one tile taller, so that an external airlock could be built right up to it without having to deal with that triangular wall piece. It's something I hadn't thought about.

And is one of those manufacturers a gas extractor? Because that's definitely something we're going to need. Although, maybe not right away? The oxygen in a jet pack will last a fairly long time if you turn the pressure down and don't fly around too much. I don't know. I wasn't able to participate in any of the unofficial ultra-early test runs, so I don't know if air was a problem.

[Marquesas]

Oh, yes, now it makes more sense why we had two of those manufacturers. I still feel the general is needed, though. Perhaps we could move the gas extractor into the engine room. A safety hazard? Yes. Do we need those? Yes.

As for the airlocks, I see what you mean, I'll expand the shuttle downwards by an additional line.

For the shuttle defense system that you planned, honestly at this point I see very little reason to implement it. It is likely that all operations will be built incorporating the initial shuttle, basically giving no point whatsoever to those weapons. If we'd force people into building in one specific direction, no attacks from that direction could be defended against from the shuttle. Furthermore, the sheer size of the shuttle itself would need a lot more weapons than the 8 placed by you to be actually useful (unless they're targeted static lasers).

In light of that, unless we can come up with something feasible, I'll be replacing the 'gun control' computers with stuff that help with station management, like ATM, ID computers, and stuff like that.

---

We've started thinking about how to 'start off' players, and allow them to attain objects otherwise unreplicable on the station.

My current working idea is:

• We start off with a budget that is virtually non-existent. A small amount of funds would be available if emergency supplies are needed.
  
• The primary way of boosting the budget would be selling minerals mined from the asteroids placed around the edge of the map.
  
• Additional budget would be invested into the station periodically (every 30 minutes), the amount of which depends on how broke the station is and how incapable of self-sustenance it is - for example, a station with a functional mineral magnet wouldn't be funded as enthusiastically as it can sustain its own existence.
  
• A special supply computer is available. This computer would use the shipping budget like the other computer but has a special set of supplies I call starter kits. Starter kits would include blueprints for items which are not normally scannable but essential to get the station running at a basic level (like a ruck kit or an AI frame), the framework blueprints for getting a proper cargo bay running, and a kit to set up a small mineral magnet.
  
• The special supply station is indestructible and can deliver a replacement ruck kit, reverse engineering fabricator, portable reclaimer, device analyzer, soldering iron and pickaxes in case the station manages to reach a diggor mortis state somehow.
  
• Cargo bay would also bolster additional supplies. This would include blueprint crates for virtually any job ever - pathology, genetics, robotics, chemistry, you name it, they've got it. It would also have a kit to set up the large, proper mineral magnet.

Please comment/rate/call me hitler.

[QP Evergrande]

Those external gun turrets I only imagined to be a partial defense, meant to be supported by pods, but never mind. I don't see them as being that important to gameplay.

Putting the gas extractor in engineering makes sense. I think putting it in one of those tiny rooms in the back would work.

Will everyone start the round with the same job? What if you assigned two people to be, let's say, Expedition Leader and Chief Architect. Those 2x3 gunner rooms could be turned into mini-quarters with a bed and still have room for a few necessary computers. That way, access to the gas extractor could also be restricted. I know the concept of leadership is somewhat foreign to SS13, but maybe in this game mode it'll be different. Or they could be restricted to mentors and above, unless none are available. With an ID computer in the Leader's quarters, it also shouldn't cause too many problems until a proper HoP office can be set up.

On a related note, did you guys come up with a solution for how to make constructed doors access-restricted? I still think my mechanics component ID scanner idea from the first page is a good one on that front.


How big of a budget infusion are we talking about here? It doesn't come up much because most miners are... somewhat derelict in their duty to the station, but the mining magnet is capable of generating a pretty large amount of revenue, plus I think we still expect to have free asteroid mining going on at the same time? I guess it depends on how much everything else costs, doesn't it? That'll probably take quite a bit of balancing. I'll just repeat something I said before.

If sets of blueprints for ruckinguer kits are made to be buyable, they should be buyable in all game modes. But a single order should contain all the blueprints for, as an example, the medbay, but at significant cost. Like, 25,000 at least. And you can't buy single blueprints because NanoTransen. That way, in this mode buying them is an accomplishment, while in regular modes buying them is a major drain, so you wouldn't do it unless you're absolutely rolling in cash, so the mechanics still need to go out and actually scan stuff most of the time.

I'll revise that by saying those kits would probably be more reasonable if they only contained stuff that could actually be scanned. The really good stuff would be reserved for rewards. The full scale mining magnet is definitely something to work for.

Related to the above, I definitely agree with the idea of global objectives with rewards. But to make construction gameplay more reactive and interesting, some of those objectives should come later, as part of the randomly generated events. Like, say, we get a CentCom announcement that there's been a plague outbreak in the area, and they need a station with a certain number of medical beds and a working pathology and chemistry lab, with a cash reward or something. But it comes in multiple stages. First, the Captain/Leader must accept (if it's too early to do something like that, they'd have to pass), then when the station requirements are met, a crate containing a pathogen sample is sent to the station, followed a few minutes later by the arrival of about a dozen infected mobs with Shitty Bill-level autonomy that we'd have to treat, and for each one cured we get a reward. Or a plague spreading throughout the station, depending on the competence of the staff.

Head of department pets should be rewards too.

I'd also like to inquire again about the possibility of having docking beacons that define the location of the escape shuttle, or possibly a passenger shuttle for those quest mobs to arrive on the station in. I got the impression before that that was something difficult to do, but my understanding is the ABC-U and related room construction tools do something fairly similar to that. Or am I missing something?

[robbie]

I am curious on how you will handle the funding issue while also paying the crew.

[BruceHenke]

I am curious on how you will handle the funding issue while also paying the crew.

The important issues, man

I ain't building your station if I'm not gettin' paid to do it

[Marquesas]

Okay, uh, let's see, no I'd like to avoid access restrictions on the goddamn survey shuttle, that's just counter-productive.

For access levels on doors I GUESS I can make a tool that can reprogram an airlock?

The budget infusion is a thing that I absolutely think should be happening, because if the station is dumb and wastes all their money on weed they shouldn't need an admin/to wait 24 hours to be able to actually do something. Do not concern yourself with the amount, let us deal with the balance.

In terms of the blueprints, we are SORT OF thinking along the same lines, but with minor discrepancies. I disagree that unscannable items shouldn't ship with blueprints, that just restricts the freedom of construction mode. Also, I'd like to avoid being dependent on rewards. Rewards shouldn't be one-off kits for objects, rather something material and lasting like 'you can order stuff in the future' or 'here have a pay raise'. Plus the station itself is prone to be destroyed by whatever bad event happens next, and there are too many 'unique' items to protect them all, we'd end up those being hoarded into a single room with 8 guards protecting it at all times. It just hinders the purpose of it all.

And finally: 'no, god no, no please no ugh no fuck no nope no NO no no no'. Any "designate this thing with a tracking beacon" is a) needlessly complicated on the code side, b) is bound to end with catastrophe, both from a code and gameplay standpoint and c) construction mode does _not_ come with an escape shuttle.

Also, in the future be mindful of posting effort (jesus dude you have cool ideas but cut back and think about us too for a second) because I'm calling it, I'm going to burn out implementing effortposts.

[QP Evergrande]

I was only curious about the specific reasons. Obviously I don't expect every detail of all the absurd things I come up with to be implemented, because I'm not an admin. I'm just a guy daydreaming about stuff that seems cool. If my excessive enthusiasm became burdensome, I apologize for that.

[DyssalC]

Okay, I'm just gonna throw my thoughts on certain things out there.

Lasers are cool and all, but it's annoying having to carry a dozen with you or having to run back to base to recharge them each time they run out. It would be nice if you could purchase the weapons that are traditionally reserved for traitors, like the Spacker-12, Revolver, Advanced Laser Gun, Old Hunting Rifle, Silenced .22, and maybe AK-744, from certain QM vendors to help beef up the station's armory.

I also feel that, in accordance with this sort of firepower, the threats to the station should be hardcore. Nothing short of "Fix that shit or you're going to have a bigger problem to deal with." Of course, it shouldn't start like this, but about 2-3 hours in when the station should be well equipped to deal with a number of things it would be nice if the events went from like a couple of martians making their way onto the ship to a god damn full-blown wendigo invasion.

It would also be nice if this applied to the asteroids that have to be mined for resources. When you bust into a big asteroid it should have a chance to be filled with some mobs, like angry martians or space yetis. And I don't know if this is a thing you can do, but it would be nice if the asteroids farther out from the shuttle spawned with more dangerous mobs but also more valuable ores.

And just some final thoughts on pods; I am curious as to how we will be able to expand podbays, considering that you can't make floors that pods can fly over (to my knowledge), though I guess using an ABC-U could fix that. Also, I feel like maybe the shuttle shouldn't start with two large pods, but instead four mini pods or two mini pods and one large pod, that way people have to build more large pods.

[Marquesas]

I was only curious about the specific reasons. Obviously I don't expect every detail of all the absurd things I come up with to be implemented, because I'm not an admin. I'm just a guy daydreaming about stuff that seems cool. If my excessive enthusiasm became burdensome, I apologize for that.

It's burdensome in the way that I read it and immediately want to implement it all. Then I realize it's the morning. Don't take this the wrong way, you have great suggestions, and keep 'em coming, but do keep in mind that the engine, and so do we, have serious limitations.

I hope my reasoning was clear enough, but feel free to voice your opinion if you disagree, I'm completely convincable otherwise with solid arguments.

[Marquesas]

Okay, I'm just gonna throw my thoughts on certain things out there.

Lasers are cool and all, but it's annoying having to carry a dozen with you or having to run back to base to recharge them each time they run out. It would be nice if you could purchase the weapons that are traditionally reserved for traitors, like the Spacker-12, Revolver, Advanced Laser Gun, Old Hunting Rifle, Silenced .22, and maybe AK-744, from certain QM vendors to help beef up the station's armory.

I also feel that, in accordance with this sort of firepower, the threats to the station should be hardcore. Nothing short of "Fix that shit or you're going to have a bigger problem to deal with." Of course, it shouldn't start like this, but about 2-3 hours in when the station should be well equipped to deal with a number of things it would be nice if the events went from like a couple of martians making their way onto the ship to a god damn full-blown wendigo invasion.

Definitely, but I wouldn't tie it to hours. Time is not an accurate measurement of the preparation of the station, as it heavily depends on which day is it, what kind of traffic we're experiencing, is #4 down, etc. Milestones can be a more accurate measurement.

And just some final thoughts on pods; I am curious as to how we will be able to expand podbays, considering that you can't make floors that pods can fly over (to my knowledge), though I guess using an ABC-U could fix that. Also, I feel like maybe the shuttle shouldn't start with two large pods, but instead four mini pods or two mini pods and one large pod, that way people have to build more large pods.

Possibly allow pods to fly over general reinforced floors? You can make those already, anyway.

[DyssalC]

And just some final thoughts on pods; I am curious as to how we will be able to expand podbays, considering that you can't make floors that pods can fly over (to my knowledge), though I guess using an ABC-U could fix that. Also, I feel like maybe the shuttle shouldn't start with two large pods, but instead four mini pods or two mini pods and one large pod, that way people have to build more large pods.

Possibly allow pods to fly over general reinforced floors? You can make those already, anyway.

Well the second issue comes from hangar doors, considering it's a bit bothersome to repeatedly exit and enter your pod to open a set of double airlocks to get your pod through.

[DyssalC]

And, my apologies for double posting, what about tele-beacons for pods? Will we be able to produce those or will one spawn in a set location at the shuttle?

[Marquesas]

For pod blasts, I'd say a limited supply of engineer-in-a-boxes or a special variety of thereof could be introduced to the station. Somehow.

As with anything normally unobtainable, they pod beacons will be orderable as a special supply blueprint. Unless they are scannable, in which case you can obtain scans from the diner or the derelict.

[robbie]

Okay, I'm just gonna throw my thoughts on certain things out there.

Lasers are cool and all, but it's annoying having to carry a dozen with you or having to run back to base to recharge them each time they run out. It would be nice if you could purchase the weapons that are traditionally reserved for traitors, like the Spacker-12, Revolver, Advanced Laser Gun, Old Hunting Rifle, Silenced .22, and maybe AK-744, from certain QM vendors to help beef up the station's armory....

And just some final thoughts on pods; I am curious as to how we will be able to expand podbays, considering that you can't make floors that pods can fly over (to my knowledge), though I guess using an ABC-U could fix that. Also, I feel like maybe the shuttle shouldn't start with two large pods, but instead four mini pods or two mini pods and one large pod, that way people have to build more large pods.

Agreed on having more pods. Exploration is paramount for colonizing and having the big hardware at the start is not really needed.

I would consider the pods to be the real defense against external threats and not some wandering station-bound guard. All that unexplored space full of danger and some guy with pistols would only be on the defensive for most of the period. He could look around and face getting gibbed in a second and not report some incoming Omega Drone. It would be easiest on people to make their own pods and not worry about micromanaging their supplies over long distances.