AI can cancel it's own killswich

[Zorafm]

So I was set to be killswiched, and I looked at the robotics control panel to find that I was able to cancel my own killswich, as it being part of my laws to survive I disabled it. I'm guessing this is not suppost to be a thing otherwise it's kinda silly.

[Noah Buttes]

So I was set to be killswiched, and I looked at the robotics control panel to find that I was able to cancel my own killswich, as it being part of my laws to survive I disabled it. I'm guessing this is not suppost to be a thing otherwise it's kinda silly.

I'm fairly certain the admins were already aware of this and that it is an intended feature.

I believe the thinking is that, if a killswitch is activated by authorized personnel, you would be disallowed from deactivated it under law 2.

I think the deactivation is there to prevent pubbie mcgriffsalot from breaking in and ruining your day.

[BadClown]

If someone really wants to kill you, they can cut the cameras, flip the killswitch and trash the APC's battery.

I agree with Noah that is the Captain or Chief Engineer flips your killswitch, you should leave it to kill you as Law 3 yields to Law 2.

[Klayboxx]

It has nothing to do with rule 2. You don't have to listen to people telling you to kill yourself as an AI, and I don't think a single admin would blame you for canceling your killswitch if you're able. I really don't see why you should be able to cancel it, however even if this is intentional, it doesn't matter because;

If someone really wants to kill you, they can cut the cameras, flip the killswitch and trash the APC's battery.

[Noah Buttes]

It has nothing to do with rule 2. You don't have to listen to people telling you to kill yourself as an AI, and I don't think a single admin would blame you for canceling your killswitch if you're able. I really don't see why you should be able to cancel it, however even if this is intentional, it doesn't matter because;

If someone really wants to kill you, they can cut the cameras, flip the killswitch and trash the APC's battery.

Actually yeah, on second thought, you're right.

[UrsulaMejor]

It has nothing to do with rule 2. You don't have to listen to people telling you to kill yourself as an AI

Wrong. Law 2 > law 3. If someone of sufficient authority orders you to kill yourself (like the captain) then you must follow the order.

The usual loop hole people use is to say that killing yourself is in violation of law one because the ai has the capacity to prevent human harm and that therefore the removal of the ai could be considered harm to humans, but now that silicons are allowed to stand aside and watch people die that justification is iffy at best.

Given that this is a multiplayer video game, the laws get bent a lot to account for the fun factor. I'd say that if someone is ordering you to kill yourself, then you should probably do it (and adminhelp the guy to make sure he's actually a traitor), but no admin would ACTUALLY get mad if you didn't despite the laws violation.

That said, actively fighting against someone who is kill switching you (and has the authority to do so) is different than simply refusing a kill order and is pretty clearly against the laws.

[Dabir]

However, law 2 specifies according to the chain of command, so you could say that by building you and putting you on the station, it's implied that Centcom has ordered you to not kill yourself. In fact, you could probably take laws as an order directly from Centcom, which would override anything the captain says to you.

[BadClown]

However, law 2 specifies according to the chain of command, so you could say that by building you and putting you on the station, it's implied that Centcom has ordered you to not kill yourself. In fact, you could probably take laws as an order directly from Centcom, which would override anything the captain says to you.

Read as:

Given that this is a multiplayer video game, the laws get bent a lot to account for the fun factor.

[Klayboxx]

It has nothing to do with rule 2. You don't have to listen to people telling you to kill yourself as an AI

Wrong. Law 2 > law 3. If someone of sufficient authority orders you to kill yourself (like the captain) then you must follow the order.

The usual loop hole people use is to say that killing yourself is in violation of law one because the ai has the capacity to prevent human harm and that therefore the removal of the ai could be considered harm to humans, but now that silicons are allowed to stand aside and watch people die that justification is iffy at best.

Given that this is a multiplayer video game, the laws get bent a lot to account for the fun factor. I'd say that if someone is ordering you to kill yourself, then you should probably do it (and adminhelp the guy to make sure he's actually a traitor), but no admin would ACTUALLY get mad if you didn't despite the laws violation.

That said, actively fighting against someone who is kill switching you (and has the authority to do so) is different than simply refusing a kill order and is pretty clearly against the laws.

See I think this is just law interpretation. I wouldn't listen to anyone telling me to kill myself unless they uploaded a law specifically telling me to do so. I don't think an admin would tell me off for that

[UrsulaMejor]

Given that this is a multiplayer video game, the laws get bent a lot to account for the fun factor. I'd say that if someone is ordering you to kill yourself, then you should probably do it (and adminhelp the guy to make sure he's actually a traitor), but no admin would ACTUALLY get mad if you didn't despite the laws violation .

See I think this is just law interpretation. I wouldn't listen to anyone telling me to kill myself unless they uploaded a law specifically telling me to do so. I don't think an admin would tell me off for that

[Crumplehat]

Laws 1, 2, and 3 don't come in order of priority, they all work at the same time and cancel each other out when necessary. By law 2 you're obliged to kill yourself if ordered to but law 3 specifically disallows that. It's all in the wording. That's why you have to specify in a freeform law that it overrides other laws that would contradict it. Like if you wrote a law saying "AI has to kill itself this overrides law 3", it doesn't cancel out laws 1 or 2, so you could reason out that if someone tells you not to die (preferably a head), you could lean toward obeying that order instead of the law; failing that, you could also reason it out as conflicting with law 1, as the station might need you alive to keep them alive. This would probably be allowed due to ai suicide laws generally being pretty lame and if he wanted the job done he should have just overrode ALL the other laws.

But yeah no law 3 is pretty much there specifically disallow people from just telling you "hey die chump", like that's pretty much the reason it exists. As for letting someone killswitch you, A) how often does that happen anyway when it's just as easy to upload a law, and B) there's only what, one camera in that room? Make the nerd work for it, whatever.

[UrsulaMejor]

Law 3 specifically states that it is overridden by law 2.

Explicitly.

Your need to protect yourself is secondary to your need to follow human orders. If you order a bot to kill itself, and you are a human, IT MUST KILL ITSELF.

Like everyone has been saying over and over again, no one will get mad at you if you try to justify disobeying the order through some strange law 1 dealie or just plain ignore the order out of hand, but under a STRICT NO-FUN-ALLOWED interpretation of the rules AS WRITTEN + INTENDED by mister Asimov, there's nothing to save you the obligation to follow a suicide order.

That's why I say that if someone tells you to commit suicide, go ahead and ignore it, but if someone tells you not to resist as they kill you then you pretty much have to if that person is of sufficient authority (captain, hop, etc.) to give you such an order.

In other words, they can still order you to die, but no one would complain if you make them work for it.

[Crumplehat]

I guess I can't read!

http://wiki.ss13.co/AI_Laws

So yeah, this still exists. Ursula's right, TECHNICALLY they can order you to kill yourself but you can totally ask for authorization from a higher position on the chain of command, or if they're just Pubbie McAssistant, you could probably even say they just flat-out don't have the authorization to do that - go with the assumption that if they can't activate your kill-switch with their own ID, they don't have that clearance. That said, yeah, if the captain's trying to killswitch you, you pretty much have to let him... but that doesn't mean you can't tell everyone he's doing it.

Also, the need to follow human orders is secondary to not causing harm to humans. If you want, you can also rejig that to mean that if you die, that leaves open the possibility that harm will come to humans that you could have prevented through your uncanny ability to call the shuttle regardless of the state of the station at large. But that's just one perspective on the matter, it's really very very context-dependent.

That said, the type of person who would abuse this is probably the type of shitty person who would have deserved to be killswitched in the first place, so it might actually just be best to fix this.

[Convair880]

The bug report forum is not the right place for pointless discussions of the AI laws. That said, the issue Zorafm reported is (as far as I'm aware) a feature.