Traitor item cost/balance chat

[Cogwerks]

Yeah, I'm guessing most people just don't know what those things do.
A sonic grenade is basically the same thing as a vampire's Chiropteran Screech skill. It is incredibly disruptive.
It's also really, really fun to pop in the earplugs, prime a grenade in your hand, and just run up to your target. It's so rarely used, people freak the FUCK out and nobody knows what's going on - and the stun time is quite long, so it's a great way to wreck a crowd or incapacitate a single target.
I've used them before to airlock all the station heads, one person screamed about me being a vampire, so I happily walked through the chapel and carried on with my business.

A sonic grenade anywhere near the engine or toxins will shatter the windows, too, making the combustion chambers pour out into the adjoining rooms.

If you've never used them, give 'em a try!

[Captain_Bravo]

Also, and I was surprised to find this out myself, you can protect yourself from flashbangs now. Sunglasses for the flash and earmuffs for the bang will completely protect you from flashbangs. Sonic grenades are still better for their other purposes, but goddamn it feels good to raid security and the armory, and then set off 30+ flashbangs on the escape shuttle, one-after-another.

[Sundance]

INCOMING EFFORT POST.
Alot of stuff that is regarded as a poor traitor item because there's stuff that can be already made. A fix for this would be making it operate completely differently/more efficiently than what you could make yourself. Essentially take the same route the pipebomb has gone. Stuff I didn't mention here is because it's fine the way it is, just very unloved for whatever reason.

Sonic grenades can be made via beaker assemblies or grenade kits. To make people want to choose sonic grenades over the free/better alternative would be very simple. Make them shatter grills too and permanently deafen people. This would mean that you could space people very easily if caught in the blast radius, and if they survive then they've completely messed their hearing and would require treatment.

Donk pockets need to changed. Make a sythflesh+meth patch and you'd have something very similar. Instead of a box of donk pockets, add just 1 donk pocket. The donk pocket has an internal heat source like dan's, and once eaten administers donkonium. Donkonium works exactly like stimulants, only it's depletion rate is much higher. The cool thing: The depletion rate can be reduced once the person is still eating. Que a chef rampaging while stuffing food/more donk pockets into his mouth.

Advanced laser gun should be able to have phaser attachments just slapped onto it. A self recharging powerful gun that can be customized? Now we're talking.

Moustache Grenade is a funny gimmick and is fine bar it has a really long countdown time

Jug of Moonshine along with healing effects should make the barman throw drunken brutal punches 100% of the time (unless he already does this)

Fake Cleaner Grenade should come as a fake cleaner grenade KIT. It should come with galoshes that can resist space cleaner. ohoho.

Artistic Toolbox someone suggested replacing this with a "thorn scroll" for 5 telecystals which would give the chaplain 1 wizard move of his choosing. That would be epic.

Chainsaw should be able to be worn on the bag slot. You should be able to mow down glass and grills without getting shocked, and you should be able to pry open doors.

Chemistry grenade kit, I don't know, but perhaps it gives out far more vapor at a far wider radius than you could with beaker assemblies?

Syndicate Robot Suit, Can a syndicate robot be killswitched? If so, that shouldn't be the case.

Floor Closet needs to be reworked entirely. It should act as a 2-way hole, you place a teleporter beacon somewhere and anything that enters the floor closet is immediately teleported to that beacon. Great for kidnapping.

Emp grenades are unique as it's the only thing that can do what it does, yet what it does is pretty damn useless. Mo Zi suggested in a thread that it should be far more subtle, and I would agree. Remove the sparkly effects, someone activating an emp grenade should not be noticed whatsoever bar the nade in his hand.

Maneater's needs better ai. They a passive stage, like suggested in a previous thread, where rubbing their head means they don't move (unless they see prey) so you can drag them around. They also need to "protect", anyone seeing attacking their owner they immediately stop trying to eat the clown and go after the security officer.

Cloaking device needs a nerf. It should work like the radbow, self recharging. 30 seconds invisable time, 2 minutes recharge time (variable depending on byond)

Chameleon Jumpsuit could do with more suits!

Everything else is dandy.

[Cogwerks]

INCOMING EFFORT POST.
Sonic grenades can be made via beaker assemblies or grenade kits

No. It's like chiropteran screech, not the bang in a flashbang.

Floor closet is also incredibly useful already, most people just don't realize it.

Fake cleaner grenades are already a 5-grenade kit for 2 TC, and they're quite mean.

[Archenteron]

If the Chemistry Grenades are getting tweaked (which I don't think they need to be because with new chemistry some truly infernal things can be done with them), the only suggestion I'd have is to package them in a box-in-a-box like the Revolver kit, and have the box of beaker assemblies, and a full Beaker Box (Or 6 beakers and a Large Beaker). Your three grenades permanently consume 6 beakers, and with doctors/clowns/barmen/scientists running around everywhere, having your own surplus beakers for loading and mixing would be a nice little quality of evil upgrade.

[Archenteron]

If the Chemistry Grenades are getting tweaked (which I don't think they need to be because with new chemistry some truly infernal things can be done with them), the only suggestion I'd have is to package them in a box-in-a-box like the Revolver kit, and have the box of beaker assemblies, and a full Beaker Box (Or 6 beakers and a Large Beaker). Your three grenades permanently consume 6 beakers, and with doctors/clowns/barmen/scientists running around everywhere, having your own surplus beakers for loading and mixing would be a nice little quality of evil upgrade.

Grenade assemblies, not beaker assemblies, Had beaker on the brain while typing this up.

[Captain_Bravo]

Sonic grenades can be made via beaker assemblies or grenade kits. To make people want to choose sonic grenades over the free/better alternative would be very simple. Make them shatter grills too and permanently deafen people. This would mean that you could space people very easily if caught in the blast radius, and if they survive then they've completely messed their hearing and would require treatment.

I disagree here. Sonic grenades are already pretty powerful, the issue isn't that they don't rock. In my opinion, they're just very situational. The earplugs deafen you, you can't use a radio, they're very obvious, and once you start using them you've only got a few left, and you're outed. I don't think the solution is to make them more obvious, I think we need to move in the other direction. Make the earplugs easier to hide, so they don't immediately out you. Maybe even buff the stealth capabilities of the grenades. If they could be used to effectively fool people into thinking there was a vampire on board, like the story someone posted earlier, that would be excellent. I think the best move for traitor items would be to make them more subtle and tricky, instead of buffing them and making even more items into rampage-starters.

Advanced laser gun should be able to have phaser attachments just slapped onto it. A self recharging powerful gun that can be customized? Now we're talking.

This is brilliant, and I'm surprised it wasn't already a thing. Imagine putting a Sniper Mod on the Advanced Laser Gun.

Fake Cleaner Grenade should come as a fake cleaner grenade KIT. It should come with galoshes that can resist space cleaner. ohoho.

I'm pretty sure galoshes can already resist space cleaner.

Artistic Toolbox someone suggested replacing this with a "thorn scroll" for 5 telecystals which would give the chaplain 1 wizard move of his choosing. That would be epic.

I like the idea, but wasn't this already shot down? I dunno if it's really useful to suggest stuff that has already been considered and denied.

Chainsaw should be able to be worn on the bag slot. You should be able to mow down glass and grills without getting shocked, and you should be able to pry open doors.

Sticking the chainsaw between airlock doors, and sawing it open sounds incredible. It should play the sound clip from The Shining, too. "HERE'S JOHNNY!"

Chemistry grenade kit, I don't know, but perhaps it gives out far more vapor at a far wider radius than you could with beaker assemblies?

Honestly, the Chemistry Grenade Kit is already pretty damn powerful. Chlorine-Azide Grenades. Maybe make it cheaper?

Floor Closet needs to be reworked entirely. It should act as a 2-way hole, you place a teleporter beacon somewhere and anything that enters the floor closet is immediately teleported to that beacon. Great for kidnapping.

No offense, but this is kinda dumb. Maybe another traitor item could work like that, I don't know. Honestly, in my opinion the best fix for the floor closet would be active camouflage. If I move a floor closet into maintenance, after about 20-30 seconds the floor tile icon should change to the same as the tile it's on. It would still be immediately obvious when dragging it around, and if someone walks in on you while it's open, you'd be screwed, but it would work wonders for making the item more subtle and useful.

Emp grenades are unique as it's the only thing that can do what it does, yet what it does is pretty damn useless. Mo Zi suggested in a thread that it should be far more subtle, and I would agree. Remove the sparkly effects, someone activating an emp grenade should not be noticed whatsoever bar the nade in his hand.

Make EMP grenades act like hitting something with an emag. Twice. Now you can chunk grenades around not just to disable cameras and fuck with cameras, but also to fuck open doors, to crack locks in the armory, etc. Build a pack of securitrons, and stuck a box with a moustrap/EMP grenade in the middle of them.

Cloaking device needs a nerf. It should work like the radbow, self recharging. 30 seconds invisable time, 2 minutes recharge time (variable depending on byond)

Uggghhh, holy shit how many fucking times has this been suggested? A dozen? Two dozen? I don't even give a shit what happens with the cloak, I'm just tired of people suggesting the exact same thing over and over. 2/10, did not like.


Everything else I either agree with, or have no opinion on.

[Cogwerks]

Phasers are really complicated and are pretty outdated, it'd be a big project to modernize them enough to use recharging cells.
The advanced rifle is low in the list because it's RD-only, but it doesn't have to be. A lot of players like it already.
Maybe the projectiles could be a little stronger, idk.

[Captain_Bravo]

Oh, one thing I forgot to ask: Grenades can still be adjusted with a screwdriver, right? So you could take the grenades you make from the kits, or the sonic grenades, and make it so they go off in your hand, or take 5 seconds, or ten seconds, to work.

I love the idea of a chemist throwing a grenade into the middle of some assistants, they all flip out, and then after 5 seconds think it's a dud... Until it explodes when one of them picks it up

[icarus]

The advanced rifle is low in the list because it's RD-only, but it doesn't have to be. A lot of players like it already.
Maybe the projectiles could be a little stronger, idk.

give the rd an expensive bottle of werewolf serum to replace it

[DrivetimeMozol]

Chainsaw should be able to be worn on the bag slot. You should be able to mow down glass and grills without getting shocked, and you should be able to pry open doors.

Something like this would definitely make it worth it. But you're saying you should be able to wear it on your back right? Not in a backpack? Because that seems like a fair trade-off.

Oh, one thing I forgot to ask: Grenades can still be adjusted with a screwdriver, right? So you could take the grenades you make from the kits, or the sonic grenades, and make it so they go off in your hand, or take 5 seconds, or ten seconds, to work.

I love the idea of a chemist throwing a grenade into the middle of some assistants, they all flip out, and then after 5 seconds think it's a dud... Until it explodes when one of them picks it up

I think you can use a multitool on it and adjust it that way.

[Sundance]

Chainsaw should be able to be worn on the bag slot. You should be able to mow down glass and grills without getting shocked, and you should be able to pry open doors.

Something like this would definitely make it worth it. But you're saying you should be able to wear it on your back right? Not in a backpack? Because that seems like a fair trade-off.

On your back yes.

Fake Cleaner Grenade should come as a fake cleaner grenade KIT. It should come with galoshes that can resist space cleaner. ohoho.

I'm pretty sure galoshes can already resist space cleaner.

Artistic Toolbox someone suggested replacing this with a "thorn scroll" for 5 telecystals which would give the chaplain 1 wizard move of his choosing. That would be epic.

I like the idea, but wasn't this already shot down? I dunno if it's really useful to suggest stuff that has already been considered and denied.

Cloaking device needs a nerf. It should work like the radbow, self recharging. 30 seconds invisable time, 2 minutes recharge time (variable depending on byond)

Uggghhh, holy shit how many fucking times has this been suggested? A dozen? Two dozen? I don't even give a shit what happens with the cloak, I'm just tired of people suggesting the exact same thing over and over. 2/10, did not like.

1. Did I say space cleaner. Fuck I meant space lube
2. It wasn't shot down. It got a firm thumbs up by alot of people then disappeared to ambiguity because that's how the suggestion forum works
3. If something is suggested over and over and over then it's probably because people are being sick of getting killed by something that has only 1 counter, thermals. Flash thing is bunched and t-ray is quite useless when your assailant has already stunned you causing you to drop your shit. A different fix would perhaps be make the cloak literally work like the cloak of darkness.

INCOMING EFFORT POST.
Sonic grenades can be made via beaker assemblies or grenade kits

No. It's like chiropteran screech, not the bang in a flashbang.

Floor closet is also incredibly useful already, most people just don't realize it.

Fake cleaner grenades are already a 5-grenade kit for 2 TC, and they're quite mean.

Isn't sonic powder a thing or did I miss something?

[Cogwerks]

Flashbangs contain flash powder + sonic powder. Sonic grenades are not chemical-based, sonic powder cannot do what they do.

[Lavastage]

The advanced rifle is low in the list because it's RD-only, but it doesn't have to be. A lot of players like it already.
Maybe the projectiles could be a little stronger, idk.

give the rd an expensive bottle of werewolf serum to replace it

....so basically we would then have 2 jobs with super expensive station-wipe out items.

[Marquesas]

Well then, let's return to my old routine shall I?

INCOMING EFFORT POST.
Alot of stuff that is regarded as a poor traitor item because there's stuff that can be already made. A fix for this would be making it operate completely differently/more efficiently than what you could make yourself. Essentially take the same route the pipebomb has gone. Stuff I didn't mention here is because it's fine the way it is, just very unloved for whatever reason.

Sonic grenades can be made via beaker assemblies or grenade kits. To make people want to choose sonic grenades over the free/better alternative would be very simple. Make them shatter grills too and permanently deafen people. This would mean that you could space people very easily if caught in the blast radius, and if they survive then they've completely messed their hearing and would require treatment.

Nothing quite like sonics can be made, anything Chemistry has basically has a VERY SHORT stun time and a VERY SMALL range. It also should remain this way.

Donk pockets need to changed. Make a sythflesh+meth patch and you'd have something very similar. Instead of a box of donk pockets, add just 1 donk pocket. The donk pocket has an internal heat source like dan's, and once eaten administers donkonium. Donkonium works exactly like stimulants, only it's depletion rate is much higher. The cool thing: The depletion rate can be reduced once the person is still eating. Que a chef rampaging while stuffing food/more donk pockets into his mouth.

Except the Donk Pockets are already tip-top because it's a lot more than just synthflesh and meth - while under the effects you have continuous healing from all damage types, your stun time is just non-existent and here's the catch - you don't get addicted to meth when eating donk pockets, which is a good thing. Basically what you're suggesting is take out the pretty good donks and replace it with a traitor item two other jobs already have without penalties, except with penalties.

Advanced laser gun should be able to have phaser attachments just slapped onto it. A self recharging powerful gun that can be customized? Now we're talking.

Yes please. The shots already look like a phaser, might as well make it act like one.
As a side note: I understand the Advanced Laser Gun should be weaker because it is self-recharging but currently in my opinion it is awfully weak.

Moustache Grenade is a funny gimmick and is fine bar it has a really long countdown time

Not to mention the BLARING RED ALARM TEXT OH MY GOD WHEN SOMEONE ARMS IT - this should probably be removed.

Jug of Moonshine along with healing effects should make the barman throw drunken brutal punches 100% of the time (unless he already does this)

I think the Barman does that when drunk no matter what.

Fake Cleaner Grenade should come as a fake cleaner grenade KIT. It should come with galoshes that can resist space cleaner. ohoho.

You already get a box of those. Also, space cleaner doesn't slip you, space lube does. Also, boots that have the kind of friction to resist space lube ought to be very hard to lift off the ground, so you probably should move very very slowly in them.

Artistic Toolbox someone suggested replacing this with a "thorn scroll" for 5 telecystals which would give the chaplain 1 wizard move of his choosing. That would be epic.

Why are we ping-ponging between wizardeqsue chaplain and murderous chaplain. The artbox is a challenge to the round, and a challenge to the user. No reason to remove.

Chainsaw should be able to be worn on the bag slot. You should be able to mow down glass and grills without getting shocked, and you should be able to pry open doors.

Back mounted chainsaw? OH GOD YES.

Chemistry grenade kit, I don't know, but perhaps it gives out far more vapor at a far wider radius than you could with beaker assemblies?

Nobody uses it for the vapour. It's fine as it is.

Syndicate Robot Suit, Can a syndicate robot be killswitched? If so, that shouldn't be the case.

The syndicate robot is practically untouchable.

Floor Closet needs to be reworked entirely. It should act as a 2-way hole, you place a teleporter beacon somewhere and anything that enters the floor closet is immediately teleported to that beacon. Great for kidnapping.

It doesn't *need* to be reworked. But as a separate idea, this is cool.

Emp grenades are unique as it's the only thing that can do what it does, yet what it does is pretty damn useless. Mo Zi suggested in a thread that it should be far more subtle, and I would agree. Remove the sparkly effects, someone activating an emp grenade should not be noticed whatsoever bar the nade in his hand.

What it does is not useless - it is still the best chaos causer around, not to mention 2 or 3 will outright kill a light borg (in terms of borg damage the grenades should PROBABLY be buffed). But yes, a bit of subtlety would help.

Maneater's needs better ai. They a passive stage, like suggested in a previous thread, where rubbing their head means they don't move (unless they see prey) so you can drag them around. They also need to "protect", anyone seeing attacking their owner they immediately stop trying to eat the clown and go after the security officer.

Right now, Man Eaters have no "owner", they just outright refuse to attack botanists.

Cloaking device needs a nerf. It should work like the radbow, self recharging. 30 seconds invisable time, 2 minutes recharge time (variable depending on byond)

Cloaking Device needs to be fucking smashed to pieces and introduced to a White Dwarf. Alternatively, the kind of recharge Sundance suggested.

Chameleon Jumpsuit could do with more suits!

It already has pretty much all jobs available. (please do your research before posting suggestions)